Parking fine after we paid for a ticket

Lf104

I’ve just come across this forum after searching for info about pcn leading to court. My husband received a pcn in September after parking in an ncp car park in July and paying for a ticket. As a lot of time had passed we had a clean of the car so have no physical evidence unfortunately. As soon as we received this we spoke to CAB who unfortunately gave us advice contrary to what is advised on this site.

We appealed giving the details through the NCP dispute form. And basically heard nothing further until we received a letter from a debt collection agency. Again we called CAB who advised us to let the debt collection agency know we were disputing it. We also wrote to NCP again saying we had heard nothing.

Shortly after, we received a letter from BW Legal saying they now had the case and the fine was £160. We phoned POPLA but couldn’t dispute through POPLA as they needed a number from the appeal and it had already gone too far (debt collectors and legal). My husband then called BW and said we were in dispute. BW Legal said the only thing we could do was pay or go to court. They also said Ncp had Responded to our appeal and had sent an email saying our appeal was rejected but as a gesture of goodwill (laughable when we already paid) we could pay £10. This email was genuinely never received by us and tbh even paying £10 when we had bought a ticket annoys me. Unfortunately my husband had a moan about it on the phone with BW so probably gave away what our defence was.

Will this or any of the other actions already completed which goes against your advice hamper any court action? Can we pick up now with your advice?

The car park that we used has had a lot of reviews with people saying the same thing (paying for a ticket and then receiving pcns). I have had many occasions over the course of the past few months where I just wanted to pay the fine as it’s less hassle but I’m also stubborn when I know I’ve done nothing wrong.

We are planning to write to our MP and put in a SAR. We have since had a letter From BW Legal with them telling us if we don’t pay by February then we will be inundated with calls and letters and it will go to court which will mean we will get a ccj if we lose (absolute bullying tactics). But no court date yet. Is it worth putting in a SAR now?

The_Deep

If they were to take this to court it would be your word against that of a well known scammer. A judge has to decide ORBOP, who is telling the truth. it is not rocket science to work out where he/she is likely to go, especially as this company has a history of false claims.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

Lf104

Thank you. I hope that you are right and that it will go in our favour. I’m just shocked that they are getting away with this.

Redx

so complain to your MP and ask them to chase up what is happening with the Private Parking Bill that received royal assent 10 months ago and is whill with the MHCLG and the BSI


nothing will change until the government changes it, the ground work has already been done by Sir Greg Knight

Coupon-mad

We have since had a letter From BW Legal with them telling us if we don’t pay by February then we will be inundated with calls and letters and it will go to court which will mean we will get a ccj if we lose (absolute bullying tactics).

Surely it doesn't say 'we will inundate you with calls and letters'?! BLOCK THEIR NUMBER - you should never have phoned them. Sadly, these robo-claim solicitors are more like glorified debt collectors and they are ALL bullies, as far too many reports have confirmed over the years, and applying a reasonable interpretation.

But no court date yet. Is it worth putting in a SAR now?

Yes if you are saying no court CLAIM yet? You are at pre-action stage, so yes, get a SAR from NCP's data protection officer and ask for the PDT machine records as well, including the payment matched to the car even if there was allegedly a simple keying error in the VRN. Tell NCP they may partially redact other full VRNs but must show the one relating to the payment made for the keeper's car.

Will this or any of the other actions already completed which goes against your advice hamper any court action?

Not at all. No worries!

Can we pick up now with your advice?

Yes, and you will win, and you will enjoy the hearing at your local court!

Why was the PCN issued, are they saying the machine misrecorded the VRN from the keys, so it didn't match the ANPR VRN?

Or are they saying the driver didn't manage to pay in coins or via an app 'in time' within x minutes, and have added that to the 'ten mins' grace period upon leaving, and decided (unfairly) that the car 'overstayed' by about 15 mins?

Lf104

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Surely it doesn't say 'we will inundate you with calls and letters'?! BLOCK THEIR NUMBER - you should never have phoned them. Sadly, these robo-claim solicitors are more like glorified debt collectors and they are ALL bullies, as far too many reports have confirmed over the years, and applying a reasonable interpretation.

yeah, I know, we shouldn’t have phoned them. We will be blocking their number...their exact words were “if you fail to make payment or provide reasons for non payment by 3 Feb 2020, further collections activity (which could be where relevant, letters, emails, calls, sms) will continue.” I’m interpreting that as being inundated with calls and letters🤷!♀️

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Yes if you are saying no court CLAIM yet? You are at pre-action stage, so yes, get a SAR NCP's data protection officer and ask for the PDT machine records as well, including the payment matched to the car even if there was allegedly a simple keying error in the VRN. Tell NCP they may partially redact other full VRNs but must show the one relating to the payment made for the keeper's car.

Fab. Will start putting that together.

Coupon-mad wrote: »

Why was the PCN issued, are they saying the machine misrecorded the VRN from the keys, so it didn't match the ANPR VRN?



Or are they saying the driver didn't manage to pay in coins or via an app 'in time' within x minutes, and have added that to the 'ten mins' grace period upon leaving, and decided (unfairly) that the car 'overstayed' by about 15 mins?

They basically said parked without payment of the parking charge. With photos of us entering and leaving the carpark. We definitely bought a ticket and it definitely was for longer than we stayed. We never go into town but I specifically remember finishing work earlier than expected and going for coffee with my husband and him annoying me so we left earlier than we originally planned 😂😂. I originally wondered if we’d made a mistake with our VRN so searched to see if it was one which you in put your vrn as well as displaying the ticket and that’s when I saw reviews of about 10 people around the similar time basically saying don’t park there as they paid for a ticket and then got fined so I don’t know if they have something wrong with their system or if it is a blatant scam. The fact that we haven’t been able to get hold of them to get an appeal code is suspicious though. 😡

Coupon-mad

Does the PCN have the car 'in' and 'out' for say, 2 hours 19 mins and yet you paid for two hours?

Or is the 'in' and 'out' time LESS than was paid for?

Lf104

In and out time was just less than 2 hours. I believe we paid for 3 hours.

Coupon-mad

Right, so this is a 'simple keying error' then. That's all it can be.

How about another line of attack?

Email Gemma Dorans at the BPA and complain that NCP are taking a case to court where they know from the appeal and POPLA appeal that the driver paid & displayed, and whilst no clear evidence has ever been provided, you are now surmising this must be a case of a 'simple keying error' because the ANPR 'In and out' time was just less than 2 hours and the driver paid for 3 hours.

Say how pleased you were to read the new BPA CoP for this month:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6090151/new-thick-finger-rules-bpa

And ask Gemma to please investigate why NCP are taking a person to court over a VRN error (attach a copy of the PCN so she can see all she needs to see):

gemma.d@britishparking.co.uk

At the very least, Gemma is likely to ask NCP to comment and it WILL flush out whether this is a simple keying error case, and why the PCN was issued. Something that a SAR alone, might not show you.

Lf104

Thank you so much. I will give that a try. I wonder if that’s why they claim to have sent us a rejection appeal by reducing the fine to £10.

Coupon-mad

It makes so much sense. Make sure your complaint to Gemma tells her that this is the FIRST you ever knew about any 'offer' to pay £10 and no such email was ever received, but it suggests that NCP knew it was a simple keying error all along, yet never explained it even in the POPLA evidence, and just pretended no payment was made.

I reckon Gemma might get that re-offered so think about it, as you don't have the evidence of the parking ticket and it will cost you lots more in time and anxiety to fight a court claim, than ten quid.

However, read the new CoP because it tells PPCs to cancel some of them, outright.

Tell Gemma you know that and your offer is to send £10 to a charity that NCP and you agree on - in your email, near the end, cheerfully offer that and suggest a charity close to your heart, and come across as really reasonable and keen to resolve it out of court.