Voltage recorder

that

you need to tell us what you want it for. most of the digital ones measure every second/minute/ hour type thing, rather than a continual measurement.


Also are you looking for transients, or brownouts?


In theory you do not even need a transformer, just two resistors the bring the voltage to about 1.414*240v=340v peak to be divided to become .340v. Get the live wire wrong way around and the whole pc chassis turns into 240v and should hopefully blow the fuse, so a transformer is safer

Heedtheadvice

Hmmmm a bit of lateral thinking...
Not really answering your question but I hope a useful post.


You will have gathered by now that there is probably not a simple cheap easy solution! There are ways of doing it but certainly not particularly easy or safe in the hands of the unititiated.


The basic recording volt meters that afe easy to aquire and cheap will not usually record the fluctuations that can cause issues (as per post above).


Specialist equipment that will do the job are very expensive to buy or expensive to hire!


But......


Just thinking of your problem, is it only the lift that has issues? Do you have other equipment that fails or shows indications of mains fluctuations?
The supply of power is not completely continuous and of a fixed voltage or frequency there being switching changeovers, spikes,dropouts, brownouts as well as blackouts and fluctuations owing to load changes etc. Connected equipment have varying resilience to issues but all sold in the uk ought to work well with a supply working within spec. Problems are often worse in areas that have heavy industry nearby or in rural locations.


As an example our microwave will sometimes get it's clock reset if there are short periods of power loss but is impervious to fluctuations that cause lights to flicker. Very low or very high voltage (outside spec) is quite uncommon and if you have reasonable belief that is happening (and better still evidence such as lights dimming) make a call to the supplier to get tham to investigate.


What I am suggesting is a bit more 'diagnosis' before running up expense.
Does the lift fail when you are in residence? Anything else at the time? Do you notice any other affects (flickering lights, short power loss etc.) What actually fails on the lift? Fuse blow, mcb trip, rcd trip, just stops controlling until power cycled off then on. Any neighbours having problems?

coffeehound

that wrote: »

you need to tell us what you want it for. most of the digital ones measure every second/minute/ hour type thing, rather than a continual measurement.


Also are you looking for transients, or brownouts?


In theory you do not even need a transformer, just two resistors the bring the voltage to about 1.414*240v=340v peak to be divided to become .340v. Get the live wire wrong way around and the whole pc chassis turns into 240v and should hopefully blow the fuse, so a transformer is safer

Yes a cooking mains transformer wouldn't transmit fast transients. I was thinking a 100:1 oscilloscope probe would make a handy transducer. Not sure what cheaper recorder would be good enough to detect the transients though.

that

coffeehound wrote: »

Yes a cooking mains transformer wouldn't transmit fast transients. I was thinking a 100:1 oscilloscope probe would make a handy transducer. Not sure what cheaper recorder would be good enough to detect the transients though.

could do a ferrite ring with a few turns on the primary and secondary, limited with a 1/4 watt in series on the primary just to capture the signal and present it to a PC. Think the audio port can handle 1v peak to peak, goes easily down to 20Hz- if not more and into the 20+KHz on the top end.

Unless the problem is for a good few seconds, think that scope is a bit useless as either the luminescence of the phosphor trace wont last, or the time frame is too big and overwrite, plus recording over long term is nearly impossible - unless it is a digital storage scope with some funky trigger to capture the event.

But we still do not know what he want to capture and the use? It could even be AC voltage from an alternator?

Carrot007

Since people so far just seem happy to advise on your request and not question it.


You get a 230V +-10% supply. It is very unlikely to be out of that spec.


Voltage is not much of an issue anyway (even on a 440 or whatever 3 phase which I expect it would be).


There are more important things to measure and the meter shoudl already be doing this if it is a 3 pahase one. If it is not it is not really feasable for a lift to run off it properly.


Maybe get in a someone who knows what they are looking for other than worrying about nonsence like voltage?

J_B

Heedtheadvice wrote: »

Just thinking of your problem, is it only the lift that has issues? Do you have other equipment that fails or shows indications of mains fluctuations?
What I am suggesting is a bit more 'diagnosis' before running up expense.
Does the lift fail when you are in residence? Anything else at the time? Do you notice any other affects (flickering lights, short power loss etc.) What actually fails on the lift? Fuse blow, mcb trip, rcd trip, just stops controlling until power cycled off then on. Any neighbours having problems?

It is a holiday rental property on the N Welsh coast (Barmouth), which we have recently developed into three apartments.
The lift first failed in March this year (two people trapped in). The door didn't open as the door mechanism had tripped - the engineer is 2 hours away
It failed again in the early summer when I was there (luckily, there was nobody in it this time). I simply turned off the power and the battery back up and then back on and it worked fine.
It failed a third time in the summer and our site manager reset it, but further investigation revealed that the running rails (?) had worked loose from the wall :eek:
It then failed again twice on the same day - the engineer came and deduced nothing ... and sent a bill for £200+!
Each fault has occurred at the weekend - make of that what you will!

Carrot007 wrote: »

Since people so far just seem happy to advise on your request and not question it.

Question away - all suggestions considered


Yes, it's 3 phase and I understand that it is allowed to be +/- x%

Carrot007 wrote: »

Maybe get in a someone who knows what they are looking for other than worrying about nonsence like voltage?

Any suggestions?

that

Think you need an independent lift engineer. Both for electricals and safety.

If that lift is out of alignment, the motor can stick and draw more current.

Also it depends what trips, is the the main breaker or and ancillary one. The breaker that trips, what is the label on the breaker - what does it control, or does the lift only have one breaker? Is the breaker connected to the same power line as say the oven, or electric hob? Just too many variables.

The lift breakers, go to another set of breakers, or fuse, and do they ever trip - what is all on the lines and how is the power distributed?

One cheap way to monitor is to buy 3 of these and clamp it over each phase https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AC-DC-Current-Voltage-Digital-Clamp-Meters-Multi-meter-Temps-Volt-Amp-Testers-UK/163293410325? but your problem is intermittent

This one has a web interface https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Efergy-Engage-Home-Business-XL-3-Phase-Online-Energy-Monitor-Max-3-x-200A-90V/143445186127?
This is also not bad, but panel mounted and remote data via a serial cable only, but may or may not give more info? https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Three-phase-Digital-Power-Meter-RS485-Communication-LED-Voltage-Power-Tester/283653759833?

Would guess the lift and the property is mainly used on weekends.

forgotmyname

I was thinking the same as above. Its pulling more power and tripping out.

I think you would be better off monitoring the load rather than the input voltage.

Apart from the loose rails, did the breaker trip each time? What needs to be reset?

If its the controller tripping out not a breaker maybe its when the lift is moving one direction and some calls it the other?

Seen a video where the auto lights in a block of flats were wired in a way that one person on one floor triggered the lights on every floor. Should be one sensor / trigger per floor.

Chino

Carrot007 wrote: »

You get a 230V +-10% supply. It is very unlikely to be out of that spec.

The tolerance is actually +10% -6%:
https://www2.theiet.org/forums/forum/messageview.cfm?catid=205&threadid=59055
http://www.twothirtyvolts.org.uk/pdfs/site-info/Explanation_230Volts.pdf

J_B

that wrote: »

Think you need an independent lift engineer. Both for electricals and safety.

Sadly, they are like hen's teeth in that part of Wales!

forgotmyname wrote: »

Apart from the loose rails, did the breaker trip each time? What needs to be reset?

Trying to answer your queries to the best of my knowledge ...

It is on it's own 3 phase supply and meter (just for the lift and the entrance hall), all the apartments are on single phase with separate meters


With the initial 'lock in' it turned out that the door motor had tripped out (for no apparent reason)


On three occasions it has just 'crashed' like a PC would and a simple power off, battery off and back on made it work again.
The time the rails were loose, I *think* it tripped something, but can't confirm.


The developers are still working on 'next door' so the site manager is on site to communicate with engineers and as such maybe we are missing out on some of the details - we live 90 miles away.


There haven't been any power issues in the apartments.
In the roof of the lift cart are four strip lights - two of these have failed (gone into flicker mode) in 2½ years, and they are only available from Greece!