Advice on Back to Wall Toilets/Concealed Cisterns

Lizbetty

Hi everyone
I'm panicking, trying to plan a new bathroom to replace the existing one, builder is booked for Feb..he's a friend and he has a gap so we're seizing the opportunity!.

It's all about saving space. We currently have a horrible toilet with a broken flush, and I'm hoping to replace it with a back to wall toilet (for easy cleaning), with a good concealed cistern built within as narrow a frame as possible to save space depth wise.

I have gleaned from googling that Geberit concealed cisterns are great, I'm unsure which model might be best as they all seem quite deep unless I'm misreading the measurements which is possible because I'm seeing double from all the googling. Our current toilet is 650 depth total and I'm hoping to get well within that with a plain-ish traditional back to wall pan (with screws on the sides rather than the bottom and no crevices or ledges for dust) and an insulated cistern which is easy to access if it goes wrong, due to the tiling (it'll have a shelf/lid on top though).

I think Geberit cisterns are accessed behind the flush but I'm not sure if they all are the same? There's so many models! The cistern depth is a biggy really and I'm not sure if a gap has to be left between the cistern and the frame around it? They are solid brick walls so a frame is the only option.

Can anyone help me think this through clearly with some advice please as I'm going round in circles. It's a huge amount of money for us and I'm really worried about getting it wrong if I'm honest. I'm terrible with this sort of thing, all these expensive decisions and options.

Thanks for any advice anyone can offer! :beer:

Lucy

andyhop

I would only ever consider geberit with there Flush plates if you are fully concealing . No other brand comes close to durability / reliability .

You will be able to frame around so the cistern is inset between the timber frame work. I’d use cement board over plasterboard as the frame will be over 600mm wide between timbers .

tacpot12

I installed a Grohe concealed cistern and Roca back-to-the wall toilet about 8 years ago. The Grohe cistern was very good quality and just 80cm deep. It is installed inside a stud wall, and has never given any trouble.

To get within 650mm, you should be able to use either the Geberit DuoFix Frame with either 12cm or 8cm Sigma cisterns. Your toilet pan will have to be less than 510mm or 550mm deep to be within 650mm (to also take into account the thickness of the wallcovering). Geberit do a toilet pan that is just 500mm deep - the Zentrum, so this should work for you even on the deeper cistern. I would go with the 8cm cistern if space it tight.

Lizbetty

Thanks so much, apologies for the late response I've only just managed to get back on!

I'm so glad you said this, I will definitely insist that we go for Geberit (I think my friend doing the work tends to get standard cheaper ones as he does a lot of renovations which is fair enough) and the comments regarding the frame are very reassuring! I had visions of having to leave an inch gap each side which would be a disaster in such a small space. We've already had to change the radiator!

I tend to research things to the nth degree and then find that everyone thinks I'm mad for choosing these products because of reliability/better service,. Generally that the fitters we have tend to pull a face at the ones I suggest after all the googling, so it's good to have the back up!

Thanks again for taking the time to reply, I really appreciate it! :T

Lucy

Lizbetty

I've just noticed this on the Geberit cistern details..

Please Note:
Must be used with pans designed for low volume flush
Flush valve features settings to enable either a 6 l and 3 l flush or a 4.5 l and 3 l flush
The cistern can be operated with used water (rainwater) provided it is passed through a filter system first.

And my husband has just gone to order a back to wall toilet, so I'm a bit concerned that the one we've ordered might not be suitable. Are most pans designed for low volume flush now does anyone know please? I did ask Geberit but they said to ask the supplier who said to ask the plumber and he is busy just now

This is the toilet pan (or similar - we haven't gone for the comfort height one..)

https://www.ukbathroomstore.co.uk/phoenix-emma-comfort-height-back-to-wall-wc-em045-inc-ultra-slim-soft-close-seat

All advice is welcomed!

Thanks again for all your help!

Doozergirl

I think all the new ones are, because of regulations.

You know what a comfort height toilet is? You may well be choosing one deliberately. It's a slightly higher seat that makes it easy for mobility impaired people to get up and down from.

Obviously able bodied folk can use them too, it just might not seem quite what one is used to if you're not expecting it.

theonlywayisup

We have a Gerberit with Roca back to wall and it's been in situ for 14 or so years. All has been well bar a leaky washer (not sure it was a washer) but the repair was easily dealt with by removing the 'letterbox' flush plate. Simple, easy and painless.

tetrarch

I have very recently refeshed a bathroom with a BTW toilet

Toilet Unit : B&Q Imandra Grey Toilet Unit

Toilet: GSI Norm 55 Back-to-wall

Cistern: Grohe 39053 Concealed Cistern

I am very impressed with the build quality of the Grohe cistern. It comes with everything inclusing a very neat and discreet flush plate (I found the Geberit plates a little large

I had to hack about the B&Q cabinet considerably to make it less deep and slightly shorter. I will be sourcing a piece of granite to replace the shiny plasticky cabinet top

The GSI toilet is 550mm, side fixing, and it has a rimless swirlflush, but it was pricey....

Regards

Tet

Lizbetty

Doozergirl wrote: »

I think all the new ones are, because of regulations.

You know what a comfort height toilet is? You may well be choosing one deliberately. It's a slightly higher seat that makes it easy for mobility impaired people to get up and down from.

Obviously able bodied folk can use them too, it just might not seem quite what one is used to if you're not expecting it.

Thanks for this! I had hoped that most pans would be low volume flush to save water, I'd never heard the term used and when I googled it it only brought up rimless toilets under the term low volume flush and panicked!

It seems we have actually ordered the comfort height toilet ..the showroom model was standard height, but the only one available now (and the one quoted for..) in that style is comfort height and the shop ordered that for us without realising. I was worried initially but having said that we're all quite tall and my husband has a bad back so it might be as well! I just hope my youngest doesn't have to take a run at it. :rotfl: I'll see what we think when it arrives in store, it was a bit of a mix up and so I'm sure they'll be ok if we change our mind.

I am wondering about the Grohe cisterns now as they seem a bit cheaper and just as good? The main thing is that it's not too deep (ideally 8cm) and I noticed that Grohe do this size too. I worry a lot about leaks and things and so reliability is a biggy

So many choices, and I'm not good at decisions!

Thanks again for all of your replies I really appreciate the help.

Lizbetty

tetrarch wrote: »

I have very recently refeshed a bathroom with a BTW toilet

Toilet Unit : B&Q Imandra Grey Toilet Unit

Toilet: GSI Norm 55 Back-to-wall

Cistern: Grohe 39053 Concealed Cistern

I am very impressed with the build quality of the Grohe cistern. It comes with everything inclusing a very neat and discreet flush plate (I found the Geberit plates a little large

I had to hack about the B&Q cabinet considerably to make it less deep and slightly shorter. I will be sourcing a piece of granite to replace the shiny plasticky cabinet top

The GSI toilet is 550mm, side fixing, and it has a rimless swirlflush, but it was pricey....

Regards

Tet

Just a question about the Grohe cistern, can you access all of the workings via the flushplate or do you need to get access to the top too? We're having it fitted into a tiled frame and so front access will affect how we work that out. Thanks for all the info! :beer:

tetrarch

Lucyeff wrote: »

Just a question about the Grohe cistern, can you access all of the workings via the flushplate or do you need to get access to the top too? We're having it fitted into a tiled frame and so front access will affect how we work that out. Thanks for all the info! :beer:

Hi Lucy,

No, the flush is tiny. You’ll need front access to do anything major, like change the filler or flush mechanism. I think that you’d be able to adjust and fix flushplate issues from the top

Regards

Tet