Sold car privately 3 days ago, buyer has thrown a rod and demands I pay

TomHardy98

Hi Guys/Girls,

I sold my car privately 3 days ago, was completely honest about the fact i'd won the car through a competition, that the car didnt have a complete service history and I wasnt sure when the previous service was. We went for a test drive and the car was fine, as i'd expect due to the fact the car has caused me no troubles throughout the 2 months of owning it and commuting with it. The buyer was happy with this, had a complete look around, I answered all his questions truthfully and then he decided he wanted it. He put a deposit, came back and drove away happy. Everything is in his name V5, ect.

The buyer then contacted me today telling me that the engine has thrown a rod, completely destroyed the engine and he wants me to pay the bill. He said he was 'cruising' and it just threw a rod which I find hard to believe, as rods tend to throw under high loads.

Anyway, does he have a leg to stand on in a small claims court? As I sold the car truthfully and it was fine when I sold it and he drove it away.

Thanks,

DoaM

No he doesn't - Caveat Emptor. As long as you can prove how the vehicle was advertised/described. (All that's required of a private seller is that a) they have good title to sell the goods, and b) describe the goods correctly).

TomHardy98

Okay thank you very much for the quick reply! That gives me peace of mind

missile

Do not enter into discussion and ignore any threats

Richard53

My guess, from your description: he owns a similar car and has thrashed it and thrown a rod. The three days was how long it took him to swap the engines. 'Your' car now has the wrecked engine, his car has the good one, and he wants his money back. Free engine, if you're cheeky enough.


As others have said, don't get drawn into any discussion, although I would advise that you keep a record of any contact in case he turns nasty.

tacpot12

For those who don't know, "Throwing a rod" is a phrase that means that one of the connecting rods has become detached from one of its attachment points, either the big end bearing or the little end bearing (at the gudgeon pin). This is a catastrophic failure and usually will require a new engine.

If the car was fine on the test drive, and fine on the drive home, I doubt that any expert would say that there was anyway you could know that the internal condition of the engine was such that throwing a rod was likely.

There are only a small number of potential causes for "throwing a rod":

- A Loss of oil pressure - but the oil warning light or Stop light would have come on - the owner would have to have ignored this and thus caused the problem themselves
- Over-revving - this is unlikely, but not impossible, if the car has an ECU, unless the ECU has been chipped. If the car hadn't been chipped or you didn't know it had been chipped, you are not liable.
- Failure of the bearing cap bolts due if the engine has been rebuilt and the bolts were not replaced - if you didn't have the engine rebuilt in your ownership, you are not liable.
- Failure of a Inlet or Exhaust valve causing it to drop into the cylinder or timing belt/chain failure causing a valve to hit the piston - if the test drive and his drive home was fine, then there was no indication that the valves or timing were compromised, so you are not liable.

MikeWhite

tacpot12 wrote: »

For those who don't know, "Throwing a rod" is a phrase that means that one of the connecting rods has become detached from one of its attachment points, either the big end bearing or the little end bearing (at the gudgeon pin). This is a catastrophic failure and usually will require a new engine.

Ah, I was remembering the "good old days" of pushrods and imagined this was some kind of classic car :rotfl:

BooJewels

We recently sold a performance car of my father's under his LPA (he's in care and certainly won't ever drive again) and sold it with this document linked below, that both parties signed - where the buyer signs that it has been sold 'as seen and tried'. We knew this car had a solid service history, but had been garaged under a SORN for several months, so we really had no way of knowing what shape it was in and told them as much. Luckily, our buyer knew the car already and knew its history and the care it was given.

As long as you were honest with the buyer, I can't see there can be any liability. Sounds like a bit of a try on to me.

https://www.theaa.com/car-buying/buyers-sellers-contracts

foxy-stoat

tacpot12 wrote: »

For those who don't know, "Throwing a rod" is a phrase that means that one of the connecting rods has become detached from one of its attachment points, either the big end bearing or the little end bearing (at the gudgeon pin). This is a catastrophic failure and usually will require a new engine.

If the car was fine on the test drive, and fine on the drive home, I doubt that any expert would say that there was anyway you could know that the internal condition of the engine was such that throwing a rod was likely.

There are only a small number of potential causes for "throwing a rod":

- A Loss of oil pressure - but the oil warning light or Stop light would have come on - the owner would have to have ignored this and thus caused the problem themselves
- Over-revving - this is unlikely, but not impossible, if the car has an ECU, unless the ECU has been chipped. If the car hadn't been chipped or you didn't know it had been chipped, you are not liable.
- Failure of the bearing cap bolts due if the engine has been rebuilt and the bolts were not replaced - if you didn't have the engine rebuilt in your ownership, you are not liable.
- Failure of a Inlet or Exhaust valve causing it to drop into the cylinder or timing belt/chain failure causing a valve to hit the piston - if the test drive and his drive home was fine, then there was no indication that the valves or timing were compromised, so you are not liable.

Good info, the only thing that actually means anything on this thread is that it if it was a genuine private sale then all the requirements are listed in post #2.

The chancer will probably make more threats and emails/texts about going to court. You just need to take a photo of the advert you used, or printed off if and when you get anything the resembles a legal court document - ignore everything else.

I normally print off a copy of the ebay/autotrader advert and use the back of it as a receipt for the buyer and keep one for myself.

BooJewels

foxy-stoat wrote: »

Good info, the only thing that actually means anything on this thread is that it if it was a genuine private sale then all the requirements are listed in post #2.

The interesting thing is - in respect of the first point in post #2 - a) they have good title to sell the goods - I'm currently pursuing someone through the county court system who sold a vehicle where they didn't have title and had had it pointed out to them by a solicitor with a comment that they must not attempt to sell the vehicle until they'd finished paying for it and title passed to them. But they did so anyway.

Yet the Police and DVLA were unable to do anything to assist us, as it's considered a civil matter. So it seems like the options available to pursue such matters inexpensively are pretty limited anyway. The aggrieved engine-less buyer would have to go a similar route to my own through the county court (unless they have very deep pockets) and at which time, the seller/OP would submit a defence and it would probably not achieve the intended result for the buyer.

As you say - the OP should ensure that they keep good records and copies of everything pertinent - should they need to defend themselves, but I somehow don't think they will.

DoaM

Sorry to hear of your predicament ... but it doesn't make anything I said previously incorrect. The police are correct about this being a civil matter ... not having good title would make the action unlawful rather than illegal; the police would likely only be interested in illegal activities.

Was the vehicle seized from you? On what basis? (Where finance is concerned the innocent buyer can still obtain good title to the goods, even if the seller didn't have good title to sell them. But the specifics are important to understand).