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UKCPM PCN Dispute

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DeltadiaDeltadia Forumite
23 posts
Fifth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
Hi all,

I received a PCN from UKCPM and would like some guidance on how best to approach this issue.

Unfortunately, I, as the Keeper, already tried their appeal process (which they rejected) before reading through the Newbies guide thoroughly.
I thought I had a strong case for them to accept the appeal due to following:

- I had parking permit but CPM's provided permit pocket for the windshield came off and the permit was on the passenger seat.
- Driver is owner of the property and the Leasehold document did not explicitly stated the need for permit.

And they have rejected the appeal on the basis that in the signs they have placed specifically states "A VALID UK CPM PERMIT MUST BE CLEARLY DISPLAYED IN THE FRONT WINDSCREEN AT ALL TIMES” and that "upon reading the signage you have contractually agreed to pay a parking charge fee"

I have went through the Leasehold agreement and only clause about parking is following:
"The right to park one private motor vehicle only in any parking space included in this Lease"

but I also found a clause about
"To observe and comply with such reasonable regulations which the Landlord may from time to time draw up for the orderly and efficient running of the building and for security health and generally in the interest of good estate management for the mutual benefit of the occupiers of the flats in the Building"

I had a quick read on the parking prankster link shared on Newbie guide and from my understanding (and possibly my bias) Leasehold agreement would supersede any other agreements. And UKCPM was brought in by Landlords (now Optivo but formerly Amicus Horizon) to control parking abuse from outsiders I would argue this case falls outside of the 2nd clause quoted above?

Driver(i.e. owner of the property) already contacted the Landlord(Optivo) by phone (he didnt talk about the Leashold agreement detail) but their reply was very casual and from their point of view CPM is doing a good job as they assigned ticket! Optivo is just bad and many residents in the Building have some complaints against them. Also dedicated manager for the Building since the days of AmicusHorizon has left Optivo so Optivo agent was just giving blanket answers.

Would the best course of action would be to ignore UK CPM on anything until they make court case? and meanwhile escalate this to the Landlord (by letter) and local MP?

Many thanks for any advice
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Replies

  • The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
    16.8K posts
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    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT] It should be argued that appointing a well known scammer to operate on a residential site where they harass and take residents' to court is not a reasonable function of management. These companies depress rentals and resale values.

    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]What does your lease/AST say about parking? Does it mention the need to display a permit? If not then it may take primacy over the self serving TnC of the scammer, and interfere with your lawful right to “quiet enjoyment” of your property, possible an offence under The Landlord and Tenants Acts.[/FONT]

    [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

    Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

    Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

    Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Half_wayHalf_way Forumite
    5.6K posts
    Eighth Anniversary 1,000 Posts
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    You need to make the following clear:
    As above, ( post by the deep) the imposition of and un regulated private parking company , in this case UKCPM is far from reasonable, as you already have a pre-existing right to use your space as outlined in your agreement here
    "The right to park one private motor vehicle only in any parking space included in this Lease"

    this can not be removed by a third party stranger ( derogation of grant)



    you should also make it clear that you have only displayed a permit in the past out of a courtesy and not as an obligation, and you may at your own choosing cease to display such permits.


    You should also get in touch with the parking company and tell them that as you have the right to use that space, they no longer have any just cause to retain and process your personal data as per GDPR in regards to issuing /processing parking charge notices, and as such they have 30 days to rectify their inaccurate data.
    You should also inform the managing agents ( or who ever contracted the parking company) the same as they will be jointly liable for the actions of their agents
    From the Plain Language Commission:

    "The BPA has surely become one of the most socially dangerous organisations in the UK"
  • DeltadiaDeltadia Forumite
    23 posts
    Fifth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Many thanks for the quick replies!


    I will highlight those points when escalating to the managing company. As a side note, managing company (Optivo) is also the landlord - this wouldnt allow them to overrule the terms of the lease, right?

    Also, I checked past correspondence from them as well, but although there was a letter about the need to display permit, there was no official change to the lease clauses.

    It may be rhetorical question but communication via a letter would be the best form of communication in these cases right?
    (I tried contacting CPM by phone just to complain but their line is always engaged.... i guess its one of their tactic...)

    I cant wait to drafting the letter once I finish work!

    Many thanks for advises
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
    90K posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    Communicate by letter or email, to give you a paper/electronic trail and proof.
    As a side note, managing company (Optivo) is also the landlord - this wouldnt allow them to overrule the terms of the lease, right?
    No. Search the forum for defence Landlord Tenant Act and read how others have covered this at defence stage before, and won.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • DeltadiaDeltadia Forumite
    23 posts
    Fifth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Thanks Coupon-mad, I will look up some of the threads on Landlord Tenant Act to familiarise myself with it before sending a letter to the landlord/management company.

    Just a quick one on IAS appeal. From newbies guide, I initially understood it as not to appeal as its in bed with IPC to begin with. But then on reading few more threads yesterday evening, I saw some reasoning for appealing on IAS to show that all channels were exhausted if the case goes to court?? And potentially IAS rejection process may provide additional ammunition too..?
  • Important update! We have recently reviewed and updated our Forum Rules and FAQs. Please take the time to familiarise yourself with the latest version.
  • The_DeepThe_Deep Forumite
    16.8K posts
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    You never know how far you can go until you go too far.
  • Coupon-madCoupon-mad Forumite
    90K posts
    Part of the Furniture 10,000 Posts Name Dropper Photogenic
    ✭✭✭✭✭✭
    We don't recommend IAS at all as it is far more likely to make you feel defeated, for no reason at all. It knocks the wind out of people's sails unless they go into it with their eyes wide open.
    PRIVATE 'PCN'? DON'T PAY BUT DON'T IGNORE IT (except N.Ireland).
    CLICK at the top of this/any page where it says:
    Forum Home»Motoring»Parking Tickets Fines & Parking - read the NEWBIES THREAD
  • Bobb12345Bobb12345 Forumite
    28 posts
    What happened with your case in the end? Was it thrown out? It would be good to know. Many thanks.
  • DeltadiaDeltadia Forumite
    23 posts
    Fifth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    I have written to Optivo (management company) and to the local MP. But no reply from either of them, yet.
    Also I have sent a letter by post as well to Optivo just in case they will use they never received it by email excuse.

    I will update as soon as I have any development!
  • DeltadiaDeltadia Forumite
    23 posts
    Fifth Anniversary 10 Posts Name Dropper Combo Breaker
    Hi,

    I have received reply from Optivo but their stance seems to be that UK CPM is correct in their PCN issue.
    They also claim "majority vote from residents including yourself you’d like me to go ahead with the introduction. All information regarding how the scheme works was given to residents at the time. Residents were made aware if a vehicle isn’t displaying a valid parking permit then a ticket will be issued, any appeal needs to be made directly with the parking company and we’re not involved with this process." Basically they seem to take the stance its nothing to do with them.

    And NTK was received today as well from CPM. On the back of their letter, they have a line stating that "This charge has been lawfully issued" which just annoys me more....

    It seems I will have to make the case in the court. I will read up on the Newbies guide again, but my next step would be to wait for letter from court? I am thinking of may be sending a letter to CPM that they should cancel the PCN and clause from the leasehold agreement. Would this be a good idea?
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