Could another political party evolve?

Zero_Sum

triathlon wrote: »

There is no easy way of saying this so I am just going to say it and accept the repercussions .. I know the old Labour Yorkshire mining communities really well from way back to the 1980's and can tell you that many of them if not racists are massively anti immigration, most do not come anywhere near the ideals of the London model of what the present Labour party represents.

Those Yorkshire and North East communities are more Geoff Boycott than Eddie Izzard and nothing in their DNA closely resembled Corbyn, Jess philips or Abbott. Watch one of the old David Bleasdale classics and you won;t go far wrong in their outlook, people often forget that many of them had/have a very right wing side to them

As I said, theyre fairly conservative in their social views but if you're basing your opinion from the 80's then the whole country would still be racist.

eamon

It is possible for a political party to emerge out of seemingly nowhere and has been done twice in the UK in recent decades. Scottish Nationalist Party and Sinn Fein (not to be confused with Sinn Fein pre Civil War) come to mind.

Also been done twice in the UK pre WW2 by the Labour Party in the 1920's and by pre Civil War Sinn Fein in 1918.


I know that in GB we have had the Greens, SDP, UKIP, BNP and more recently ChangeUK. All four of those have amply demonstrated the difficulty of breaking though, being consistent with a message that doesn't convey them as being portrayed as fascists/communists/idealists/media darlings.


Our entire election process could do with a major shake up but I can't see the Tories and Labour doing any of that in a meaningful way.

Thrugelmir

The SNP has been in existance for a very long time. A booming oil price elevated it's status. With the decline in fossil fuel usage now a certainty. Time is of the essence.

Cakeguts

The problem is that momentum and the top Labour leaders had a sort of peculiar idea of what poor means. They didn't seem to have any concept of the fact that in other areas of the country (not London) people could have a very good standard of living on a wage that in London would mean that you were poor. I can understand someone living in a very nice house in the north being a bit upset to be called poor just because they didn't earn a London salary.



What I was seeing was a complete lack of knowledge about standards of living in other areas of the UK based on the salaries that people earned and compared to London. What none of them seemed to realise was that compared to other parts of the UK many people on higher salaries in London are poorer than people who for example live in the north. If you get the impression that the Labour politicians are making out you are poor because you don't have a London salary you are not going to be that impressed. I am not at all surprised that they voted Conservative. The arrogance of the Labour party in comparing every where else to London would be enough to make anyone not vote for them.

Zero_Sum

Cakeguts wrote: »

The problem is that momentum and the top Labour leaders had a sort of peculiar idea of what poor means. They didn't seem to have any concept of the fact that in other areas of the country (not London) people could have a very good standard of living on a wage that in London would mean that you were poor. I can understand someone living in a very nice house in the north being a bit upset to be called poor just because they didn't earn a London salary.



What I was seeing was a complete lack of knowledge about standards of living in other areas of the UK based on the salaries that people earned and compared to London. What none of them seemed to realise was that compared to other parts of the UK many people on higher salaries in London are poorer than people who for example live in the north. If you get the impression that the Labour politicians are making out you are poor because you don't have a London salary you are not going to be that impressed. I am not at all surprised that they voted Conservative. The arrogance of the Labour party in comparing every where else to London would be enough to make anyone not vote for them.

Whats even more laughable is that their northern MP's (well the Corbynistas anyway) believed this.

In NW Durham there was rabid Corbynista gobsh*te Laura Pidcock who claimed that on their joint £100k+ salary she couldnt afford a house in an area where average house prices are about £100k.
It no wonder they voted her out.

sevenhills

MaxiRobriguez wrote: »

I think the bigger story over the next few years will be what comes of the Liberal Democrats. They essentially had one policy this election which was soundly defeated

I agree, the Conservatives now have a stonking majority and can do what they please.
But the parties that wanted another referendum received the most votes. It was just our FPTP voting system that blocked it.

sevenhills

kinger101 wrote: »

The Lib Dems problem IMO stems from the fact they've not had a good leader since Kennedy, and they need to stop campaigning as if they can win a general election. Historically, they've done in small regions of the UK - Scotland and the South West.

The Liberal Democrats increased their vote by 4.2%, so they didnt perform that badly, it was our FPTP voting system that meant that they ended up with fewer MPs.

LHW99

But the parties that wanted another referendum received the most votes.

Only if you include Labour in that. IMO their position was so woolly (to put it nicely) that noone, including them, really knew what they wanted

Thrugelmir

sevenhills wrote: »

I agree, the Conservatives now have a stonking majority and can do what they please.
But the parties that wanted another referendum received the most votes. It was just our FPTP voting system that blocked it.

The Labour electorate are divided as is the party. Likewise many people who voted remain . Voted Conservative just to get on with it. As doing nothing was causing the greatest damage.

Arklight

Crashy_Time wrote: »

So credit availability to the masses is the same as it ever was, and the availability of credit hasn`t changed how the masses live spend and travel at all in your world view?

What does this have to do with people self identifying as working class?