Could another political party evolve?

triathlon

I am by no means a right winger, I have even been one of the old boys from the black stuff, GBH type lefty sympathiser in my time, old Labour values of protecting the old working men's wellbeing I have a lot of time for some might be shocked to hear.

But I had an article pop up on my Facebook that highlighted the problems of the poorer hard working 40 hour + per week working man. It had two photos, one of men in rags in the early part of the 20th century covered in dirt and working their socks off, it said something like 1930/40's Labour voter.
Then it forwarded to 2019 and the a photo of a load of Labour Snowflakes, some men wearing skirts with the likes of Owen and Izzard and all the other minority lefty sympathisers of minority issues, half of which only came about recently.
My question is where does a hard working class man/woman turn to in 2019, for now it seems the Tories, which is ideal for me, but what now?

In 2019 a young working man and woman could go to the council and announce they are to get married and hope to start a family and would and could they have a council home. They would be laughed out of the building, even though at one time being married, working and of good character was a prerequiste to getting a council home, how screwed our system now is.

Will another political party come about do you think

sevenhills

Could another political party evolve, to protect working men? The classification is meaningless these days.
We also have working women and a massive range of groups. The grey vote, the gay vote and the muslim vote.
As a working man, I vote Liberal Democrat, I believe they look after my interests, am I wrong?

Thrugelmir

triathlon wrote: »

Will another political party come about do you think

Plenty of factions. As long as we have FPTP then collective mainstream parties will continue to dominate. You talk of the 40's. Life was still very different in the 60's. Compared to today.

AnotherJoe

What's your concern with hard working men? Why not people ? Why are you offended or similar if someone wears a skirt? Why does it bother you ?
And then, what's "hard working". Do you mean physical work only?

triathlon

AnotherJoe wrote: »

What's your concern with hard working men? Why not people ? Why are you offended or similar if someone wears a skirt? Why does it bother you ?
And then, what's "hard working". Do you mean physical work only?

What is it with you people, just try reading a little harder before going into a rant please

Crashy_Time

sevenhills wrote: »

Could another political party evolve, to protect working men? The classification is meaningless these days.
We also have working women and a massive range of groups. The grey vote, the gay vote and the muslim vote.
As a working man, I vote Liberal Democrat, I believe they look after my interests, am I wrong?

Yes, very very wrong, they look after their own political interests, well they did....

Crashy_Time

triathlon wrote: »

I am by no means a right winger, I have even been one of the old boys from the black stuff, GBH type lefty sympathiser in my time, old Labour values of protecting the old working men's wellbeing I have a lot of time for some might be shocked to hear.

But I had an article pop up on my Facebook that highlighted the problems of the poorer hard working 40 hour + per week working man. It had two photos, one of men in rags in the early part of the 20th century covered in dirt and working their socks off, it said something like 1930/40's Labour voter.
Then it forwarded to 2019 and the a photo of a load of Labour Snowflakes, some men wearing skirts with the likes of Owen and Izzard and all the other minority lefty sympathisers of minority issues, half of which only came about recently.
My question is where does a hard working class man/woman turn to in 2019, for now it seems the Tories, which is ideal for me, but what now?

In 2019 a young working man and woman could go to the council and announce they are to get married and hope to start a family and would and could they have a council home. They would be laughed out of the building, even though at one time being married, working and of good character was a prerequiste to getting a council home, how screwed our system now is.

Will another political party come about do you think

"Working class" ceased to meaningfully exist as soon as Joe Anybody could apply for a bit of plastic online with 5k, or maybe even 10k credit, and cheap flights started covering a wide range of routes, the men in rags in your photo wouldn`t be able to comprehend the access to finance and travel even "poor" people today have, today`s debt bubble world is vastly different to the 80`s or early 90`s even let alone the turn of the 20th Century! There are three main classes now IMO, Wealthy, Debt free saving/investing class and Debt is my breakfast/lunch/dinner class, and it is unlikely that any of the groups are under anything like enough pressure yet to start a new political movement. If anything pops up it will likely be centred on the climate and bashing the debt creation policies that created the housing bubble IMO.

Arklight

It's possible Labour has had its day. It's a party designed to represent the working class in a class obsessed country where no one thinks they are.

For the time being, England has the government it voted for, and deserves.

Arklight

Crashy_Time wrote: »

"Working class" ceased to meaningfully exist as soon as Joe Anybody could apply for a bit of plastic online with 5k, or maybe even 10k credit, and cheap flights started covering a wide range of routes, the men in rags in your photo wouldn`t be able to comprehend the access to finance and travel even "poor" people today have, today`s debt bubble world is vastly different to the 80`s or early 90`s even let alone the turn of the 20th Century! There are three main classes now IMO, Wealthy, Debt free saving/investing class and Debt is my breakfast/lunch/dinner class, and it is unlikely that any of the groups are under anything like enough pressure yet to start a new political movement. If anything pops up it will likely be centred on the climate and bashing the debt creation policies that created the housing bubble IMO.

It has nothing to do with availability of credit. I know thats the HPC scapegoat for everything but in real life most people don't live like kings on credit cards dancing between scores of gullible lenders who somehow never require paying.

Working class means people who work, usually in unskilled or semi skilled professions, for average or lowish wages. This applies to as many people as ever, but Brits appear to not want to identify with the reality of their situations and prefer to vote for privileged Eton billionaires in the hope some of it might rub off. To give them something to do while they wait years for a routine medical procedure, presumably.

triathlon

Arklight wrote: »

It has nothing to do with availability of credit. I know thats the HPC scapegoat for everything but in real life most people don't live like kings on credit cards dancing between scores of gullible lenders who somehow never require paying.

Working class means people who work, usually in unskilled or semi skilled professions, for average or lowish wages. This applies to as many people as ever, but Brits appear to not want to identify with the reality of their situations and prefer to vote for privileged Eton billionaires in the hope some of it might rub off. To give them something to do while they wait years for a routine medical procedure, presumably.

And he totally over looks the fact that credit is not a give away, it has to be repaid and in the vast majority of times is repaid. Credit in these times just improves peoples cashflow, nothing else, it has little or no relevance to most peoples confidence in the housing market.

You are spot on about it being a "HPC scapegoat", at some point/some decade they are going to have to conceded they were wrong or put it another way, I have paid off the mortgages to three properties since HPC.com opened shop

MaxiRobriguez

If Labour manages to have some open, honest self-reflection then there's every probability that they'll be back in Government in ten years. I think one general election won't be enough to overhaul an 80 seat majority but chip away at it in five years and go again in ten.

The Tories have essentially done very little for ten years and have sold to many people the prospect of a brighter future with Brexit. If it doesn't deliver, or even worse, causes economic hardship for people, then it's only a matter of time before government changes, as it always does.

I think the bigger story over the next few years will be what comes of the Liberal Democrats. They essentially had one policy this election which was soundly defeated, and many of their supporters would fit in with a Labour party that moves to a more centrist economic approach whilst retaining some of the more liberal social policies.

The elephant in the room as Thrugelmir has already pointed out is that the FPTP voting system essentially forces people to vote one of two ways, so it's almost inconceivable that Labour dies and a new party emerges. If that does indeed happen then it'll be a Tory government in perpetuity until most of us die.