Overstayed by 12 minutes should I appeal

waamo

You seem to believe there is a discount for paying early. Very few companies actually give this discount. They say it exists but there again some people say the Loch Ness Monster exists.

Search on here for mythical discount and see how time after time parking companies chase for the full amount no matter what.

HelpPlease4321

Dear Coupon-mad and fruitcake,

Thanks again for your input. There is quite a substantial amount of material on this forum to digest and I apologies if I am making rookie errors here and I certainly don't want to or mean to be going over old information. I have read quite a bit now and mostly I just want to check that I have interpreted the information that I have read here correctly and that it applies to this situation.

I have searched and read a bit about the split grace periods but i'm still not sure I follow your argument. From everything I have read so far it suggests that the driver should be allowed 10 minutes to park up and buy a ticket and then a further 10 minutes once the ticket has expired to exit the car park (i understand that it could be more than this but 10mins seems likely, or 11 minutes as it can be argued). The time in the car park is alleged to be 15 mins over the amount of time paid for with 12 of those minuets being in excess of the end of the paid period. In order to argue the charge (without question on this one point alone) surely I would need to prove that at least the end grace period did not exceed 10 mins which I can't do. Since they will have a record of when the ticket was purchased they would in theory be able to prove that the final 10 minute grace period was exceed. Does your argument about being allowed 20 minutes assume that they can't prove when the ticket was purchased? Probably i am missing something here but i don't see what.

Now for some of my own maths, 2 minutes overstay incurs a £60 fine the hourly rate for the car park is £1800! What criminals

thanks again

HelpPlease4321

Dear Waamo,

I'm sorry I don't follow. The PCN states that there is a reduction in the charge if paid within 14 days.

Fruitcake

HelpPlease4321 wrote: »

Dear Waamo,

I'm sorry I don't follow. The PCN states that there is a reduction in the charge if paid within 14 days.

You are dealing with scammers. We know from experience that they will come back for the difference, "having found that the motorist failed to comply with the small print on the sign or NTD/NTK"

The only discount you want is the 100% MSE discount.

As for the grace periods, other appeal points are available to you. Some of these have already pointed out to you, but all of this is irrelevant unless you make the initial appeal.

It is not a fine.

Castle

HelpPlease4321 wrote: »

Since they will have a record of when the ticket was purchased they would in theory be able to prove that the final 10 minute grace period was exceed.

Based on your first post they are saying the car entered at 13.20 pm and the 2 hour ticket was purchased at 13.23 pm.

HelpPlease4321

Fruitcake, so paying the £60 does not necessarily guarantee that it will be the end of the matter?

Castle, the timing is correct they have not mentioned when the ticket was purchased but since the ticket was saved it is known when the ticket was purchased and presumably so will they.

thanks again

1505grandad

"Fruitcake, so paying the £60 does not necessarily guarantee that it will be the end of the matter?"

Correct - it is surprising also how often the discount amount is received out of time!!

MistyZ

HelpPlease4321 wrote: »

at first it all seems like a large and scary undertaking which has come at an awkward time of year

You've made progress already - you now know that the company is a member of the BPA and that the second tier appeal - POPLA - is therefore available. As the Registered Keeper has yet to send the first appeal to the Parking Company, only that really simple first step needs to be done at this awkward time, if by that you mean Christmas.

Locate the appeal template in the Newbies' thread - it's unmissable as it is in blue text throughout. Then send it within the timeframe.

You can find some examples of how to address the two grace periods very thoroughly by searching the forum for 'POPLA split grace periods'.

waamo

If you send a cheque they don't cash it in time to get the discount. If you pay by card it takes over 14 days to process.

Both scenarios will be your fault making you illegible for the "discount"

TW1234

With regards to the times and grace periods, you are just "not getting it." This is understandable and is the smoke and mirrors that the scammers rely on to confuse folk into paying their trumped up charges. Like you, most people fall into the trap of thinking the times are all connected and correct and that the scammers have not been selective in what information and instructions they have supplied.

Realise that the ANPR cameras stamped clock times and the payment machine times are NOT guaranteed to be in sync with each other or GMT (or internet time) and proof that they were (which is essential for the PC to win their case) is simply NOT available. The companies technology is not sufficiently accurate and robust enough to support their claims.

The ANPR stamps show that the vehicle entered the premises at a certain time and left 2hrs 15 mins later.
The payment stamps demonstrate that the driver purchased a ticket at some time which may or may not be the time that is shown on the ticket, and which is NOT relatable to the ANPR times.
The parking association "rules" require that the ticket permits the driver to enter the car park, take a period of 5-10 mins to obtain the ticket, park for the period of time purchased (ie 2 hrs) and then spend 10 mins moving from the parking spot to the exit. The scammers do not point this out!
The times stamped on it prove the amount of parking time purchased but can not be demonstrated to be absolute times in order to enable links to other time stamps to be made..
The ticket would only prove to a "judge" that the driver purchased the 2 hrs and therefore that a driver COULD enter the car park and leave it 2rs15mins later.(possibly even 2hr20mins)
Therefore as their ANPR cameras demonstrate that the vehicle entered and left after 2hr15mins they cannot "win" if the KEEPER takes the appeal to POPLA or if they take it to "court".

Be aware that the recipient of the PCN must appeal firstly to the parking company (who invariably reject the appeal ) AND demand that a POPLA appeal permission number be given, so that it can go to POPLA.

The details of how to appeal, go to POPLA and ultimately be prepared to fight at court are available on this forum, but do require some effort to collect the relevant bits & understand.
In this case example, matters should be concluded at the POPLA stage if the above is laid out clearly.