Flat above a shop and i'm paying business rates, yet i cannot change over, some advice please

robdub

Hello everybody and thank you for taking your time to read this message.

I moved into a flat above a business, the business was in-fact dormant when I moved in, but was recently taken over by a green grocers. From day one I wanted the bills in my name so I can manage them as any adult would. However the meters are located inside the business which I do not have access to even after repeated attempts at asking for access. Upon moving in i set up bills in my name, however the landlord told me to cancel this as he would manage them and give me a price. So I cancelled them expecting this to take place. This never happened, until the green grocer moved in and the business manager (not the landlord) set up bills in his name, on a business tariff because he is a business. I live in a one bedroom domestic flat above, am out 8am - 6pm every day at work. The flat was recently made all electric because the gas board came and ripped the gas meters out due to the previous tenant owing over £2000 in unpaid bills. My portion of the electric bill was £157 for a month last month and £187 this month. Which is ludicrous. I have pictures of the bills. The electric bill for the whole property was £1,027.74 and my portion apparently was £187. So I ask the green grocer downstairs to show me the bills and the water says 'business stream' and the electric "business EDF energy" letterheads and i realise something is definitely wrong. From my understanding business pay 20% VAT and domestic should be 5%. So i'm being majorly skanked here.

I have tried ringing up to change from business to domestic but they wont speak to me because its not in my name. I do not have a leg to stand on.

How are my bills/usage worked out you ask? Great question!! Apparently the electric meter does have a separate reading for the flat upstairs (so does that mean sub meter? I wouldn't know i've not seen them with my own eyes). The green grocer takes his reading and mine, sends it off to his "accountant friend" who works out my usage i guess based on his business rates and gives me a figure to pay. I am not happy with this arrangement. As when i get a quote for that property for a single person on any comparison site, the quotes are £49 a month for a single person in this one bedroom flat.

Water is impossible to work out as me and the business are on the same meter. The Business owner assures me they "barely use any water" well i'm sorry but I cant prove that and your a green grocers do you not wash your fruit and veg?

I am going to complain to the estate agents and ask for the flat to be sub metered properly so water and electric meters show a reading for just my flat upstairs so I can register bills in my name and manage myself. Also demand I can have access to view and take monthly meter readings.

However is there any legislation the landlord or estate agents are breaking so when i write my complaint I have a leg to stand on and can quote legislation they are currently breaking? Surely the estate agents should have checked all this before letting it out? Surely the landlord needs to sub meter his property if he's going to have domestic upstairs and business down?

I will move if i have to over this. But I like the property and it suits me well so would rather stay and sort this if possible, last resort = moving, and yes I am already looking and having flat viewings just in case.

My plan is to do some research, starting here thank you for any advice, then writing to my estate agent complaining and stating my terms (sub meters to be fitted and access to meters so i can reg in my name). And what about any compensation due to me paying business rates the last 2 months?

If the estate agent or landlord do not do anything then I will go to the ombudsman.

Do you have any other advice for me before I start all this on January 1st? (Estate agents are closed for xmas).

Thanks,
Rob

Gerry1

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/consumer/energy/energy-supply/problems-with-your-energy-supply/what-your-landlord-can-charge-for-energy/

robdub

Hi Gerry

Thank yo for that link, some interesting points in there.

I can quote my tenancy agreement:
“To pay promptly to the authorities to whom they are due, council tax, water and sewerage charges, gas, electric, tv license, telephone relating to the property where they are insured during the period of the tenancy. The tenant agrees to ensure that all electric, gas, water, telephone accounts as appropriate are transferred to the tenant name on commencement of this tenancy and to notify the landlord or his agent prior to changing supplier for any of the utility stated above.”

Well i can confirm none of the utilities were transferred to I the tenants name on commencement of this tenancy. So I do have a leg to stand on when I complain to the agent. I can quote that part of the agreement in my complaint.

So can i refuse to pay the business owner downstairs and quote my tenancy agreement states I should have utilities in my name to pay the utility company?

Gerry1

Best to speak to Citizens Advice and see what they suggest. It sounds a very irregular arrangement. My understanding of a sub-meter is a meter downstream of the 'official' meter. That's a very second rate arrangement because you're tied in to a tariff chosen by somebody else, probably also with the complications of it being a business tariff as well. It sounds like there may already be a separate 'official' meter for your flat which would be far better (albeit not immediately accessible) because you would then be free to choose your supplier and tariff.

I'd suggest finding out your rights from CA before you go any further, then you will be fully armed with the relevant knowledge so that the greengrocer / letting agent won't be able to fob you off when your raise the issues with them. I wouldn't recommend refusing to pay for the electricity: it might be better to insist of paying by cheque and getting a receipt.

On the wider issue, all-electric is always bad news. Full price electricity is astronomically expensive for heating, and inflexible storage heaters on Economy 7 don't make much sense when you're out all day. If there is a gas central heating system still in situ it might be worth seeing if you can get the gas supply reconnected. If so, make sure it's all done correctly (not by an unqualified moonlighting chum of the landlord / greengrocer) and is fully safety checked !

However, if the present accommodation is all a bit shady it might be better to put it down to experience and move to somewhere with gas central heating and legitimate metering.

Streaky_Bacon

You are bound by the tenancy agreement not by some later scheme that the landlord or greengrocer have come up with.

I would be tempted to

1) Write to the energy supplier, explain the situation, including the metering and ask to have an account set up linked to the "sub meter".

2) Write to the agent and landlord, clarifying that, per the tenancy, you are attempting to set up an account with the energy supplier so that you can pay them.

You say that you were originally set up on the bills be were then asked to cancel that by the landlord. Did you have an account linked to the main meter or the sub meter?

SnowTiger

robdub wrote: »

I moved into a flat above a business, the business was in-fact dormant when I moved in, but was recently taken over by a green grocers. From day one I wanted the bills in my name so I can manage them as any adult would. However the meters are located inside the business which I do not have access to even after repeated attempts at asking for access. Upon moving in i set up bills in my name, however the landlord told me to cancel this as he would manage them and give me a price. So I cancelled them expecting this to take place. This never happened, until the green grocer moved in and the business manager (not the landlord) set up bills in his name, on a business tariff because he is a business.

This almost certainly means there is only one meter as far as the power company is concerned, which belongs to the business below you (or the landlord). Your meter runs off that.

A fairly common set up in this type of rented accommodation.

robdub wrote: »

The flat was recently made all electric because the gas board came and ripped the gas meters out due to the previous tenant owing over £2000 in unpaid bills.

That suggests the 'previous tenant' is your current landlord.

Ripping out the gas meter(s) seems extreme.

robdub wrote: »

I can quote my tenancy agreement:
“To pay promptly to the authorities to whom they are due, council tax, water and sewerage charges, gas, electric, tv license, telephone relating to the property where they are insured during the period of the tenancy. The tenant agrees to ensure that all electric, gas, water, telephone accounts as appropriate are transferred to the tenant name on commencement of this tenancy and to notify the landlord or his agent prior to changing supplier for any of the utility stated above.”

Well i can confirm none of the utilities were transferred to I the tenants name on commencement of this tenancy. So I do have a leg to stand on when I complain to the agent. I can quote that part of the agreement in my complaint.

Tenancy agreement is probably an off the self document; it contains the words 'as appropriate'.

I think you'll find there's only one bill for electricity and water, shared between the shop and your flat.

Sticky situation and not uncommon in properties that have had a flat conversion done on the cheap.

Citizens Advice probably have lots of experience of this type of set up. As suggested, contact them for advice.

I don't know how much it would cost to give your flat its own electricity meter. Over a grand I would expect.

robdub

Thank you all. I will be speaking to citizens advice. I am also writing to my agent right now stating the clause about bills being transferred to my name, which never happened even after repeated attempts at asking for this.

I am slightly worried about the legal jargon in the clause 'as appropriate' but i'm going to try down that route.

Aye it was nightmare when they ripped the gas meter/ switched supply off. I was away for the weekend and came back and was notified by the green grocer. I went a month with no hot water. It was too expensive to turn back (they wanted the unpaid bill settling), so he made the flat fully electric, I was not happy about that either. I did get a little compensation after complaining. The previous tenant was a barbers who had the business below and lived in the flat upstairs. So this arrangement would have been ideal for him as he owns the business and lives upstairs. This is not ideal for me as a domestic user.

I did not get very far when trying to set up bills in my name upon day 1 of moving in. I got told to cancel maybe a day or two after setting up, so i never even sent in my first reading, was a hi, bye sort of thing.

I think I will be moving ASAP, but lets try complain first while I look into other suitable flats.

It's seems like a very dodgy situation. Thank you for all your thoughts. I appreciate it.

Gerry1

https://www.which.co.uk/consumer-rights/advice/how-to-complain-about-your-letting-agent

https://www.housing-ombudsman.org.uk/residents/make-a-complaint/

Damien78

SnowTiger wrote: »

This almost certainly means there is only one meter as far as the power company is concerned, which belongs to the business below you (or the landlord). Your meter runs off that. A fairly common set up in this type of rented accommodation.

I wonder how economically viable it is. Is it possible that the bill for the separation of electricity meters will be higher than the difference in tariff?

spiro

The key for elec is if there are 1 (whole building) or 2 (shop and flat) MPANs. If there are 2 then you are free to switch to any supplier and should not have been forced onto a joint account. If there is only 1 MPAN for the whole building then there is nothing you can do unless the LL agrees to get a 2nd supply installed which could cost thousands.