MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Rhydian and Beverley ride together?

harryhound

calculus wrote: »

If they are going west to London it means they have come from Essex, so they will probably go into the first class without paying and leg it-or blag it-when the inspector comes....

No chance of that happening on C2C line.

harryhound

mjhmjh2 wrote: »

Now final point - penalty charge - is that technically legal? All this news about banks not being allowed to charge a penatly that is an unreasonable amount becuase they haven't take you to trial etc etc - can the railways do it? Do they have to take you to court etc etc?

Matthew

The penalty charge (typically 20 GBP) probably works the same way as all those other fines: Forgetting the Zone charge, Parking, Late with your car tax, Driving at 35+ because you thought the limit was 40, Getting stopped on a yellow box, Failing to realise that the rush-hour bus lane has turned into a 24 hour bus lane etc. etc. etc. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO GO TO COURT AT YOUR EXPENSE AND ARGUE YOUR CASE (The odds are you will be poorer and you might become criminal) - so that is all right then?!?. If you arrive back late at your terminal, cannot be bothered to join the ticket Q, you might be able to pull a few strings and get let off the penalty; but it helps to be called Lord something or other.
I find it amusing that the current Government has introduced so many new criminal offences that they are now having to invent filters, so that the crime figures don't go off the scale. Card fraud is the major example (Our fastest growing crime) and now we see the Prime Minister saying the dodgy payments to Labour Party & members are against the law but he cannot tell the Old Bill.

vinnyr_2

From the National Rail Terms and Conditions (applies to ALL rail companies):

"39. Travelling in first class accommodation with a standard class ticket
If you have a standard class ticket (other than a Season Ticket), no standard class accommodation is available, and ticket staff on that train give their permission, then you may travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) where this is available without extra charge.
On-train ticket staff will not give you permission to use first class accommodation (or the equivalent) unless they are satisfied that it is not required by anyone with a first class ticket and the standard class accommodation on the train is full. This permission may be withdrawn if a person holding a first class ticket requires the accommodation during your journey or standard class accommodation becomes available.
If you have a standard class ticket and you travel in first class accommodation without permission (which includes occupying seats or standing in any part of the carriage), you will have to pay:
(i) the difference between the price of that ticket and the price of the first class ticket for the accommodation you have used; or
(ii) where Condition 4 (b) applies, a Penalty Fare.
If you have a standard class Season Ticket, you may only travel in first class accommodation (which includes occupying seats or standing in any part of the carriage) if:
(a) the difference between the full single fare for first class accommodation and the full single fare for standard class accommodation has been paid before your journey starts;
(b) any other relevant supplement set out in the notices and other publications of the Train Companies has been paid before your journey starts;
(c) notices are displayed allowing passengers with standard class tickets to use first class accommodation; or
(d) on-train ticket staff have given you permission.
In all other cases, if you travel in first class accommodation (or the equivalent) with a standard class Season Ticket, you will be treated as having joined the train without a valid ticket and the relevant parts of Condition 2 or 4 will apply."

Roverman

I am a driver for a busy commuter train company running into and around parts of London. I can tell you that 99% of drivers are accutely embarassed and have great sympathy with the travelling public and the conditions they are expected to travel in at times.
There is also a question of safety as well. Many people do not realise that at times a twelve car train travelling packed with commuters can have up to 2.5 times as many people on board as travel on a jumbo jet. If it were allowed would you travel on a plane in such conditions?
Buses have limits on the amount they can carry, aircraft can only carry as many people as it has seats, even if your knees are crammed up against the seat in front, whereas trains can carry as many passengers, seated or unseated, as can be shoehorned in to a carriage.
I also have some sympathy with the train operators as when they introduced new stock on our mainline routes they wanted to have one standard travel to create more room and seats. However the terms of the franchise forbid this and they are bound to supply x amount of first class seats.
On our company, and I am sure this is so for most other commuter opeerators, a ticket only entitles you to travel and does not gaurantee you a seat, let alone to sit in first class if no seats are available.
My view is that it is generally poor, at times unsafe, and like a lot of other things in this country needs a radical overhaul to meet the needs and aspirations of the travelling public.
By the way I would just like to point out that we no longer have "public transport" in this country that serves the public need but rather private enterprise offering services to the public. The main difference being that all companies priority now is to maximise profit from their franchises. If this conflicts with the public need but they are still fulfilling the terms of their franchise...... well you can guess what will have priority there.
The system is wrong and the people who run it, the gov't be it Labour or Tory, have got it wrong but what to do about it????????

JimmyTheWig

As there are seats available I'm not convinced they've got the moral right to sit in first class.
But in terms of the wider issue, first class should be scrapped.

nej

Why on earth should they be able to sit in First Class? If I order a cheesburger in McDonalds but they've run out, should I be able to get a Quarter Pounder for the same price? No. And I accept my analogy is rubbish.

In any case, why should it be those two that get the good seats? Is that their reward for turning up late and missing all the seats? How about somebody else, who got there on time, moves up to 1st, and they take the 2nd class seat?

extender_2

I jolly well hope they don't turn up in First Class with me, if they are from Essex. I'm not a snob, but one must accept that people are different. They are probably very nice people in their own environment, and I'm sure there are some people from Essex I could get on with,well, quite well, but there are limits.

harryhound

extender wrote: »

I jolly well hope they don't turn up in First Class with me, if they are from Essex. I'm not a snob, but one must accept that people are different. They are probably very nice people in their own environment, and I'm sure there are some people from Essex I could get on with,well, quite well, but there are limits.

Are you just a troll, 'avin a laff?

There is never a dull moment on C2C, especially at his time of year.

Any time after dark, expect to be chatted up (regardless of your sex), possibly offered a drink; normally the only danger is getting your shoes splattered by a technicolor yawn.
I remember one Christmas party evening when the train out of the other station (Liverpool Street) was totally overloaded by riff raff trying to get to Shenfield, because the E.Anglian train companies had messed up. Tempers got frayed and a stranger (from Geordie land) mistranslated what had been said to him and resorted to his fists. A bit later on two women had a cat fight over a seat. (The Geri Halliwell look alike lost a chunk of ginger hair, before a gentleman sat her on an arm rest; and probably wished he had not, as she proceeded to slump all over him in a drunken slumber.)

No wonder we seem to be getting free rail travel on such trains these days,
perhaps they cannot afford to pay the premium to the staff?

mancrob26

Just sit in first class without upgrading. I've done it loads of times, sometimes they move you, sometimes they don't.

If they move you, find somewhere you can stand together and get drunk.

Someone will get off soon enough and you can take their chairs.

If its Rhydian from X factor, if he stands near someone for five minutes I dare say they'll get scared and move anyway!

charliegirl_3

I work for a large train operating company and again as previously mentioned, under our Condtions of Carriage the purchase of a ticket is merely the right to TRAVEL, not the right to a seat. Seats can usually be reserved in advance for most journeys, however you will find some shorter ones, usually around city centres are non-reservable. In these cases, what I would always recommend to customers is go early, allow plenty of time for buying your ticket and finding a seat.