MONEY MORAL DILEMMA: Should Rhydian and Beverley ride together?

Voyager2002

I don't understand the dilemma. If they are going to be on the train for more than about fifteen minutes, their tickets WILL be checked. In which case they might be invited to pay a hefty upgrade fee, but might be stung for a whopping great penalty fare.

A more interesting question is what happens when there are no seats at all available in Standard, while lots are empty in First. When I started travelling by train, it was understood that in this situation you were allowed to find space in First. In fact, generally the train manager would put up signs on one such carriage deisgnating as available for Second class passngers. This is still the practice in Switzerland, probably in other countries as well. The loss of this custom marked the point when we ceased to be a civilised country.

Wivsi

I've had several rows with guards about this when there have been no seats in standard and virtually empty first class sections; guards are allowed to declassify a carriage from first class if the train is overcrowded, they just don't often choose to do so.

A guard once came back to me to tell me there was a single seat available in standard class 3 carriages down after I'd refused to leave first class on the above grounds. I've also argued with a guard on a Leeds to London service while he was trying to insist a pregnant woman should stand in standard class because she didn't have a first class ticket. To me this seems to demonstrate that their priorities are hugely misplaced.

At £23 peak one-way for a 65 mile journey, on a line where the train company don't accept seat reservations, and overcrowding is the daily routine, I'm going to have a seat if there is one available. It's the train companies job to correct their seating allocations, not to force customers to pay even higher fares because that's the only way they can be seated; if we all pay additional fares to gain a seat, we're rewarding them for incompetence.

(rail company incompetence really irritates me)

Amylou_3

If there were no seats left in second class, in some train operator's Conditions of Carriage you are automatically allowed to take a seat in first class so long as it isn't required by a person with a first class ticket. Though some of the staff may try and argue, their superiors know the rules!

calculus_2

If they are going west to London it means they have come from Essex, so they will probably go into the first class without paying and leg it-or blag it-when the inspector comes....

Mozette

Sit in First. I did this once with some mates. When the ticket Inpspector came round, we were very polite and said if he could find us seats in 'standard' we'd move. Bless him, he did, so we moved!

kiiabby

I would say... first class like a shot.

It may not be morally sound to use a seat you haven't paid for, but the train network in this country is a disgrace and has caused me so much trouble over the years (not to mention thousands of pounds of train tickets even with a railcard! Such a lot for a poor student!) that if I would not have any problem sitting in first class.

I think considering how expensive train tickets are, how unreliable the trains are and also how train companies refuse to provide adequate seating for people (First Great Westerns Portsmouth-Cardiff line and Virgin's cross country service are prime examples, with the latter also having the disgusting smell of toilets wafting through the cattle class coaches!) that it is not right to charge so much for train cattle class and so if there's a chance I can make my train ticket actually worth the money and bag myself a seat on a crowded train at the same time, then it is worth it.

jubro

jenando999 wrote: »

When I was coming back from holiday in the summer with my daughter we had 2nd class train tickets booked from Edinburgh to Dundee. As the train was packed and we stood with our luggage, a very nice ticket inspector told us we could sit in first class as it was empty. It soon filled up with people following our lead. :rotfl: I think we were just lucky to find a really nice inspector working that night.

I used to travel this route about once a month and, especially if the train is going on to Aberdeen and/or has come from London, this is a pleasantly regular gesture which helps with 'health and safety' for passengers too! I however would not have followed without checking with nice inspector that it was OK to do so and being appreciative of his kind decision. :T

Similarly to the Welsh traveler there is a leisure first upgrade available on east coast mainline trains (what used to be GNER) which I have used often (free coffee and biscuits on a 6 hour journey almost balances the additional cost) and it wouldn't surprise me if Mr. Branson's lot do something similar too.

So even in a morale dilemma there can be a money tip!

mjhmjh2

My tuppence - they should stand or sit in 2nd class, then they should make their objections to the appauling train service by campaigning or writing letters perhaps.

The problem is 1st class is quite clearly a premium service - if you allow people to use it when there are no seats in second - then why would someone want to buy a 1st class ticket to sit with the riff raff? You may as well do away with it all together.. which IMHO seems a better idea.

As to driving in theatre land - did it two weeks ago. I actually drove to hammersmith (from hampshire), parked in the residents parking for free (after 6pm) and stayed there for dinner. I would use that location also but get the tube into town if still within charging times or I was not used to driving in london. I drove through theatre land to give my cousin a ride back to brick lane after dinner.

If you know where you can park you can do it easily and cheaply. The best way is to drive to somewhere easy to park but on the tube line.

To get the train would have cost my wife and I £50 plus parking at our local station (about £4). The cost to run the car works out at about 20 pence per mile (fuel, road tax, insurance, depreciation etc), it's 50 miles to london ish so we payed £20, that's less than half!

Now final point - penalty charge - is that technically legal? All this news about banks not being allowed to charge a penatly that is an unreasonable amount becuase they haven't take you to trial etc etc - can the railways do it? Do they have to take you to court etc etc?

Matthew

Big_Al_P

I am a railway conductor. On my train if there are no seats left and reasonable standing room is full then I would advise people to take advantage of first class. However that said, assuming there are passengers with first class tickets on board, the first people to be given the option would be those dressed smartly. If your trousers are hanging down so far that people can see your underwear, etc, then don't expect the free upgrade. :santa2:

harryhound

mjhmjh2 wrote: »

Now final point - penalty charge - is that technically legal? All this news about banks not being allowed to charge a penatly that is an unreasonable amount becuase they haven't take you to trial etc etc - can the railways do it? Do they have to take you to court etc etc?

Matthew

The penalty charge (typically 20 GBP) probably works the same way as all those other fines: Forgetting the Zone charge, Parking, Late with your car tax, Driving at 35+ because you thought the limit was 40, Getting stopped on a yellow box, Failing to realise that the rush-hour bus lane has turned into a 24 hour bus lane etc. etc. etc. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO GO TO COURT AT YOUR EXPENSE AND ARGUE YOUR CASE (The odds are you will be poorer and you might become criminal) - so that is all right then?!?. If you arrive back late at your terminal, cannot be bothered to join the ticket Q, you might be able to pull a few strings and get let off the penalty; but it helps to be called Lord something or other.
I find it amusing that the current Government has introduced so many new criminal offences that they are now having to invent filters, so that the crime figures don't go off the scale. Card fraud is the major example (Our fastest growing crime) and now we see the Prime Minister saying the dodgy payments to Labour Party & members are against the law but he cannot tell the Old Bill.