Confused.

european_citezen

Hello, might someone will be able to help me, or push me into the right direction.
I am Lithuanian I have a full lithuanian (EU) drivers license, which I've passed in early 2014.
In 2015 I've moved to UK, and made my biggest mistake in my life, drink&drive...
Please don't judge me..
Okey, so the court gave me 12 months driving ban, it also said to do an extended driving test after the ban is over, they also ask me to surrender my drivers license which I did not...
In 2018 I went back to Lithuania for holidays, I got my self a new drivers license (because the old exipired) and now I have my drivers license which is valid from 2018 to 2028, but my ban ended in the UK in 2017.
I have no restrictions to drive in Lithuania or any other EU country, because my drivers license is valid from the issuing country (Lithuania) however I am not sure can I drive in the UK (the offense was done in in Northern Ireland, where the law different from England...) because on the court order in does not say that I had non-uk drivers license, and I cannot check online I am allowed to drive in UK, because you only can check UK drivers license, online. However if I check my drivers license on my countrys online sistems it says the the drivers license is valind and had nor restrictions...
So anyone please help me out, doe's anyone knows the answer? Because I'VE been to 2 lawyers, and their answer was: I am not sure. And also, if i go to any insurense company with my current license, they are more than happy to insure a car for me, I believe that the insurense companys must see that we are still banned, or am I wrong? Also there is no information about EU drivers license on their website, it's only about UK drivers license. So doe's that mean when your ban is over you simply can drive, cause how can you re-do your test with other countrys issued drivers license? It does make perfect sense to re-do your test on UK drivers license but not EU.

phill99

You need to find a lawyer that specialises in driving law.

Shaun_of_the_Dead

european_citezen wrote: »

Hello, might someone will be able to help me, or push me into the right direction.
I am Lithuanian I have a full lithuanian (EU) drivers license, which I've passed in early 2014.
In 2015 I've moved to UK, and made my biggest mistake in my life, drink&drive...
Please don't judge me..
Okey, so the court gave me 12 months driving ban, it also said to do an extended driving test after the ban is over, they also ask me to surrender my drivers license which I did not...
In 2018 I went back to Lithuania for holidays, I got my self a new drivers license (because the old exipired) and now I have my drivers license which is valid from 2018 to 2028, but my ban ended in the UK in 2017.
I have no restrictions to drive in Lithuania or any other EU country, because my drivers license is valid from the issuing country (Lithuania) however I am not sure can I drive in the UK (the offense was done in in Northern Ireland, where the law different from England...) because on the court order in does not say that I had non-uk drivers license, and I cannot check online I am allowed to drive in UK, because you only can check UK drivers license, online. However if I check my drivers license on my countrys online sistems it says the the drivers license is valind and had nor restrictions...
So anyone please help me out, doe's anyone knows the answer? Because I'VE been to 2 lawyers, and their answer was: I am not sure. And also, if i go to any insurense company with my current license, they are more than happy to insure a car for me, I believe that the insurense companys must see that we are still banned, or am I wrong? Also there is no information about EU drivers license on their website, it's only about UK drivers license. So doe's that mean when your ban is over you simply can drive, cause how can you re-do your test with other countrys issued drivers license? It does make perfect sense to re-do your test on UK drivers license but not EU.

Were you also done for dangerous driving as excess alcohol doesn't require and extended test?

So what licence did you originally have as you should only have one eu licence?

Car_54

AIUI When a holder of a non-UK licence is sentenced to points or a ban, the DVLA create a virtual or ‘ghost’ licence on their system and apply any endorsements to that.
This would come to light if you committed any more offences in the UK, when I guess they could charge you with driving without a valid licence as you wouldn’t have complied with the requirement to pass a test.
However, I think specialist advice is needed.

Shaun_of_the_Dead

Car_54 wrote: »

AIUI When a holder of a non-UK licence is sentenced to points or a ban, the DVLA create a virtual or ‘ghost’ licence on their system and apply any endorsements to that.
This would come to light if you committed any more offences in the UK, when I guess they could charge you with driving without a valid licence as you wouldn’t have complied with the requirement to pass a test.
However, I think specialist advice is needed.

If a retest is ordered by the court he wouldn't be charged with driving otherwise in accordance, it would be a drive whilst disqualified charge.

Jumblebumble

phill99 wrote: »

You need to find a lawyer that specialises in driving law.

No need whatever to talk to a lawyer
It scares me that you have had advice from 2 who appear to be so incompetent
I hope you did not pay them

Have a read of this and don't drive as it is crystal clear you are not allowed to drive in UK till you have taken a new test in the UK
https://www.gov.uk/driving-disqualifications/disqualification-until-test-pass-or-extended-test-pass

If you carry on driving and get caught and you have defied an English court who have banned you from driving in UK until you have retaken a UK test this is going to lead you into a world of pain

Your Valid Lithuanian license will not stop the police locking you up for driving whilst disqualified and could ultimately end up with you going to prison
I am also sure your insurers would not be pleased if you made a claim

It is not helpful to check if your Lithuanian license is valid as it will not trump your invalid ghost licence

Shaun_of_the_Dead

Jumblebumble wrote: »

No need whatever to talk to a lawyer
It scares me that you have had advice from 2 who appear to be so incompetent
I hope you did not pay them

Have a read of this and don't drive as it is crystal clear you are not allowed to drive in UK till you have taken a new test in the UK
https://www.gov.uk/driving-disqualifications/disqualification-until-test-pass-or-extended-test-pass

If you carry on driving and get caught and you have defied an English court who have banned you from driving in UK until you have retaken a UK test this is going to lead you into a world of pain

Your Valid Lithuanian license will not stop the police locking you up for driving whilst disqualified and could ultimately end up with you going to prison
I am sure you insurers would not be pleased if you made a claim

It is not helpful to check if your Lithuanian license is valid as it will not trump your invalid ghost licence

Not to mention the two further offences committed when whipping out said licence.

TooManyPoints

Were you also done for dangerous driving as excess alcohol doesn't require and extended test?

That's not correct, shaun. Where a driver is ordered to take a re-test, if the offence is one which carries an obligatory disqualification (which driving with excess alcohol does) then an extended test must be taken. An extended re-test must also be taken if a re-test is ordered following a "totting up" disqualification. If a re-test is ordered following a discretionary disqualification then only a normal re-test is needed. Details here from the Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/5-disqualification-until-a-test-is-passed/

I agree with jumblebumble. The Northern Ireland court's order is quite clear. You must take an extended re-test before driving again in the UK:

In 2018 I went back to Lithuania for holidays, I got my self a new drivers license (because the old exipired) and now I have my drivers license which is valid from 2018 to 2028, but my ban ended in the UK in 2017.

No it did not. Your ban does not end until you pass an extended test as ordered by the court. Meanwhile you can only drive in accordance with the conditions of a provisional licence. That is, you must display 'L' Plates and you must have a qualified driver supervising you (that is a driver who has a full licence to drive the class of vehicle you are driving, who has held that licence for three years and be over 21 years old). Anything else means you are driving whilst disqualified and that offence carries a maximum sentence of six months' custody. Your Lithuanian licence (or one from anywhere else) has no bearing on this whatsoever. Physically holding a licence - whenever and wherever you obtained it from - does not somehow magically override the court's order.

Since Northern Ireland is mentioned you should also note that your driving ban also applies to you driving in the Republic of Ireland. An agreement between the UK and Ireland came into force on 1st August 2017 which saw the mutual recognition on both sides of the border for bans involving reckless or dangerous driving, hit-and-runs and driving while under the influence of drink or drugs.

You should be very careful when taking out motor insurance in the UK. Many online applications will not cater for your situation (you have a valid EU licence but are effectively banned in the UK and Ireland) and you should either speak to the insurers directly or a broker. You may well also have problems taking your re-test using a foreign licence. You will have to sort that out with the DVLA

Shaun_of_the_Dead

TooManyPoints wrote: »

That's not correct, shaun. Where a driver is ordered to take a re-test, if the offence is one which carries an obligatory disqualification (which driving with excess alcohol does) then an extended test must be taken. An extended re-test must also be taken if a re-test is ordered following a "totting up" disqualification. If a re-test is ordered following a discretionary disqualification then only a normal re-test is needed. Details here from the Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/5-disqualification-until-a-test-is-passed/

I agree with jumblebumble. The Northern Ireland court's order is quite clear. You must take an extended re-test before driving again in the UK:



No it did not. Your ban does not end until you pass an extended test as ordered by the court. Meanwhile you can only drive in accordance with the conditions of a provisional licence. That is, you must display 'L' Plates and you must have a qualified driver supervising you (that is a driver who has a full licence to drive the class of vehicle you are driving, who has held that licence for three years and be over 21 years old). Anything else means you are driving whilst disqualified and that offence carries a maximum sentence of six months' custody. Your Lithuanian licence (or one from anywhere else) has no bearing on this whatsoever. Physically holding a licence - whenever and wherever you obtained it from - does not somehow magically override the court's order.

Since Northern Ireland is mentioned you should also note that your driving ban also applies to you driving in the Republic of Ireland. An agreement between the UK and Ireland came into force on 1st August 2017 which saw the mutual recognition on both sides of the border for bans involving reckless or dangerous driving, hit-and-runs and driving while under the influence of drink or drugs.

You should be very careful when taking out motor insurance in the UK. Many online applications will not cater for your situation (you have a valid EU licence but are effectively banned in the UK and Ireland) and you should either speak to the insurers directly or a broker. You may well also have problems taking your re-test using a foreign licence. You will have to sort that out with the DVLA

I missed the word normally, a medical is more common than an extended test.

A reading of 40 would see you eligible for a course and back on the road in nine months without a test needed.

Jumblebumble

TooManyPoints wrote: »

That's not correct, shaun. Where a driver is ordered to take a re-test, if the offence is one which carries an obligatory disqualification (which driving with excess alcohol does) then an extended test must be taken. An extended re-test must also be taken if a re-test is ordered following a "totting up" disqualification. If a re-test is ordered following a discretionary disqualification then only a normal re-test is needed. Details here from the Magistrates' Sentencing Guidelines:

https://www.sentencingcouncil.org.uk/explanatory-material/magistrates-court/item/road-traffic-offences-disqualification/5-disqualification-until-a-test-is-passed/

I agree with jumblebumble. The Northern Ireland court's order is quite clear. You must take an extended re-test before driving again in the UK:



No it did not. Your ban does not end until you pass an extended test as ordered by the court. Meanwhile you can only drive in accordance with the conditions of a provisional licence. That is, you must display 'L' Plates and you must have a qualified driver supervising you (that is a driver who has a full licence to drive the class of vehicle you are driving, who has held that licence for three years and be over 21 years old). Anything else means you are driving whilst disqualified and that offence carries a maximum sentence of six months' custody. Your Lithuanian licence (or one from anywhere else) has no bearing on this whatsoever. Physically holding a licence - whenever and wherever you obtained it from - does not somehow magically override the court's order.

Since Northern Ireland is mentioned you should also note that your driving ban also applies to you driving in the Republic of Ireland. An agreement between the UK and Ireland came into force on 1st August 2017 which saw the mutual recognition on both sides of the border for bans involving reckless or dangerous driving, hit-and-runs and driving while under the influence of drink or drugs.

You should be very careful when taking out motor insurance in the UK. Many online applications will not cater for your situation (you have a valid EU licence but are effectively banned in the UK and Ireland) and you should either speak to the insurers directly or a broker. You may well also have problems taking your re-test using a foreign licence. You will have to sort that out with the DVLA

My understanding is there is mutual recognition of driving disqualifications between Northern Ireland, Great Britain and Isle of Man.
This implies that one can take the test in either country to end the disqualification

if taking the test in UK then the doc i quoted says
If you’ve got a licence from another EU country
Don’t apply for a provisional licence - you can use your EU driving licence to take the test instead.

Follow the usual rules for learning to drive until you retake your test and pass
I assume they need L plates etc

The NI Page implies he needs a provisional licence

TooManyPoints

I must say that in England & Wales ordering a re-test for excess alcohol (especially for a reasonably low reading which a 12 month ban would indicate) would be unusual. Courts would normally leave the DVLA to address any potential medical issues. "High Risk" offenders go through more hoops before being granted their new licence (High risk is >87.5 in breath - with commensurate levels for blood and urine; second or subsequent offence within 10 years or refusing to provide a sample). Only if there was a genuine road safety risk over and above that normally presented by a drink driver would a re-test be considered. I must say that in over twenty years observing English courts I cannot recall seeing one driver ordered to take a retest following a DD conviction. Perhaps they have different guidance in NI.