Smart parking charge - need helps

Legacy_user

Hi,
I need some advice... So I have a company car through my other half's work but my details are on the lease also. Today my other half recieved TWO!! a PCN dating 30/11/2019 and 25/10/2019 at Grays Shopping Centre. Now the company has paid for the charge BUT we still have to pay the charge back to the company plus admin fee. Now, I according to the poster in the shopping centre is clearly states
First 3 hours FREE
3-5 hours £3
6-12 Hours ........etc
Not only myself but other who use the car park read the sign as the first 3 is free so anything after is to be paid for. which is what Has been paying.
One of the parking notice says Driver entered 09:25 and exited 17:09 . The first 3 hours is free taking it to 12:25. 5 hours parking was paid for from 12:24 to 17:24 so Driver is within the time slot. but according to the PCN it states insufficient time paid.
To now add icing on the cake, I have also been told by SMART PARKING that there are a further 4 PCN coming through excluding the 2 already given and because there are 2 weeks behind as of the 6/12/2019 so there may be more coming through.

How can This be appealed & won especially because all the cases are exactly the same and get the company to stop paying the fine or at least get the fines already paid refunded back.

HELP!!!!!!!!!!

Ps. this is an ongoing issue in this area and a complaint is already already being made to the shopping centre.

Fruitcake

Why on earth did the company pay the charge? What a bunch of idiots. All they had to do was tell the parking scammers the identity of the lessee/hirer.

They are not fines.

By paying the scammers they have perpetuated the scam and denied the lessee/hirer the right to appeal.

The lessee/hirer should check the terms of the lease/hire agreement to see what it says about speculative invoices/private parking charges.
If they are not included then they do not need to be paid by the lessee/hirer.

I suggest another lease/hire company is found very quickly, one that actually understands the scam and how to deal with a PCN from an unregulated scammer.

Find out if the hire/lease company is a member of the BVRLA. That is the hire/lease company trade association and it has told its members not to pay these charges but to pass them to the hirer/lessee, and tell the parking scammers who has hired/leased the vehicle.
Complaints should be made to the hire/lease company and the BVRLA if they are members.

Also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

Fruitcake

No, leave this, the first thread running, and edit your second thread Title and Text content!

System

Fruitcake wrote: »

Why on earth did the company pay the charge? What a bunch of idiots. All they had to do was tell the parking scammers the identity of the lessee/hirer.

They are not fines.

By paying the scammers they have perpetuated the scam and denied the lessee/hirer the right to appeal.

The lessee/hirer should check the terms of the lease/hire agreement to see what it says about speculative invoices/private parking charges.
If they are not included then they do not need to be paid by the lessee/hirer.

I suggest another lease/hire company is found very quickly, one that actually understands the scam and how to deal with a PCN from an unregulated scammer.

Find out if the hire/lease company is a member of the BVRLA. That is the hire/lease company trade association and it has told its members not to pay these charges but to pass them to the hirer/lessee, and tell the parking scammers who has hired/leased the vehicle.
Complaints should be made to the hire/lease company and the BVRLA if they are members.

Also complain to your MP about this unregulated scam.

The Lease company is LexAutolease and this is something they regularly do. They pay the fine and then email the letter with a admin charge which then gets deducted from my other half salary before he can even challenge anything.

Fruitcake

It is not a fine.

If Lex are BVRLA members, complain to both them and Lex that the trade association guidelines are not being followed.

Check the lease/hire agreement to see what it says about parking charge notices from unregulated private parking companies.
If they are not covered then they are stealing by docking salary because their hire/lease contract does not permit it.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Read what Pete Wishart MP said recently in the House of commons about Smart Parking.[/FONT]


[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]"I am sick and tired of receiving emails from people complaining about the behaviour of parking companies, telling me that they will never again visit Perth city centre because of the negative experience they had when they had the misfortune to end up in a car park operated by one of these companies. I have received more complaints about one car park in the city of Perth than about any other issue. That car park is operated by the lone ranger of the parking cowboys: the hated and appalling Smart Parking—I see that many other Members are unfortunate enough to have Smart Parking operating in their constituencies. It has reached the stage where one member of my staff now spends a good part of each day just helping my constituents and visitors to my constituency to navigate the appeals process.
…
The BPA does not have the ability to regulate these companies and has shown no sign whatsoever that it is trying to get on top of some of the sharper practices. The BPA gives a veneer of legitimacy to some of the more outlandish rogue operators by including them in their membership, allowing them to continue to operate. The Bill will oblige operators such as Smart Parking to amend their practices." [/FONT]

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP., it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]










[/FONT]

System

Fruitcake wrote: »

It is not a fine.

If Lex are BVRLA members, complain to both them and Lex that the trade association guidelines are not being followed.

Check the lease/hire agreement to see what it says about parking charge notices from unregulated private parking companies.
If they are not covered then they are stealing by docking salary because their hire/lease contract does not permit it.

Apologies, just had a look at the T&C's its not Lex Autolease but Coutrywide Group Fleet. & according to the T&C they have the right to pay for fines and deduct fines from next available salary in line with policy. It also states that also states that fine can still be appeal although paid by going directly to issuing company with is SMART PARKING

Le_Kirk

Thank goodness it is not a fine then! It is a speculative invoice. See if that is in the T&Cs.

System

Please correct me if I am wrong, I have just looked at the T&Cs but nothing referencing the difference between a invoice and fine. The actual PCN letter went to the lease company who have emailed my other half saying the fine has been paid on your behalf by your lease company. They have also included the following
Fine -£60
Charge - £30
I have started typing up a letter to post to them as I cant email or appeal online due to 2 of the fines being paid for.

Dear Sir,

Parking Charge Notice [XXXXXX]: Vehicle Registration [XXXXX]

I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by SMART PARKING Ltd (“Hvf LTD C-O Lex Autolease”) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of both of these PCN and all the additional PCN that are due to be sent out.
You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why SMART PARKING LTD Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.
Given that SMART PARKING has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.
Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.


Yours faithfully,


I also want to include how the signage is misleading

Does this sound ok ?

System

UPDATED LETTER

Dear Sir,
Parking Charge Notice [XXXXXX]: Vehicle Registration [XXXXX]
I refer to the above-detailed Parking Charge Notice (“PCN”) issued to me by SMART PARKING Ltd (“Hvf LTD C-O Lex Autolease”) as a Notice to Hirer. I confirm that as the hirer of this vehicle, I am its keeper for the purpose of the corresponding definition under Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (“POFA”) and I write to formally challenge the validity of both of these PCN and all the additional PCN that are due to be sent out.
You will no doubt be familiar with the strict requirements of Schedule 4 of POFA to be followed in order for a parking operator to be able to invoke keeper liability for a Parking Charge. There are a number of reasons why SMART PARKING LTD Notice to Hirer did not comply with POFA; in order that you may understand why, I suggest that you carefully study the details of Paragraphs 13 and 14 of Schedule 4 in particular.

Further to this, your signage is MISLEADING – The signage claims the following below
FIRST 3 hours Free
3-5 Hours £3
5-12 Hours 6

A large part of the shopping centre advertise Free parking for 3 hours and the instructions does not include a clear explanation stating if you stay longer than 3 hours, you will not be eligible for the ‘Free 3 hour parking’

Given that SMART PARKING has forfeited its right to keeper liability, please confirm that you shall now cancel this charge. Alternatively, should you choose to reject my challenge, please provide me with details of the Independent Appeals Service (POPLA), their contact details and a unique POPLA appeal reference so that I may escalate the matter to POPLA.
Thank you for your cooperation and I look forward to receiving your response within the relevant timescales specified under the British Parking Association Ltd Code of Practice.

Yours faithfully,

Umkomaas

If the charge has been paid there's no point in appealing to Smart, they've had their money, they will not give you a second glance. Neither will you get a POPLA code from them.

Your argument is now with the hire/lease company. If they are BVLRA members, you should read the Memorandum of Understanding reached between the BPA and BVRLA to see if you can progress your issue via that route.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/9b0iavad3aqeh28/BPA%20BVRLA%20MoU.pdf?dl=0

If the hire/lease company is not a member, then it's going to be a struggle. Either way it won't be easy.

The other possibility is that you issue a claim against them for the return of your money. If you're going down that route you're into legal territory and your best advice then will be via the LegalBeagles forum.

https://legalbeagles.info/forums/forum/legal-forums/court-claims-and-issues