Hit and run question in car park

cheekyweegit

Hi folks,

I wondered if I could pick your brains after the following happened to me or rather my beloved Mondeo.

On Sat 11th November I was parked in a public multi story car park attached to a shopping centre here in Dundee. On return to my car, to drop shopping off someone had smashed into my car causing a fair bit of damage and basically did a runner.

Damage consisted of (all at back drivers / passengers side) :-

Back bumper totally burst on corner, jagged edges left
Scraped back tyre
Chipped tail light
Scraped / dented the wheel arch and bit of the door.

My car was borderline a write off due to it's age and the fact the MOT was due, but it's only got £74k miles, a full service history and was in pretty good nic for its age and I think this was it's saving grace. I think there was at least £800 worth of damage caused.

Although the driver had done a runner, someone who was ironically a Minster and checking his wheel nuts at the time as he had recently had new tyres fitted heard the bang and saw the driver driving away to another parking spot, but got his / her reg no and make of car (Ford Focus W reg) and left a note for me on my windscreen. (I'm eternally greatful to him to this day and can't thank him enough). He said it was a hell of a bang and there was no way the other party could not have known they had hit my car and theirs must've been damaged too.

I contacted car park security, and they took the details along with the police who told me I had to inform my insurance company which I duly did, so I can get my car repaired. (£250 excess though). Now my car has been in the garage for just over a week, but I got a phone call from them saying one of my back door locks is now broken and I now need to pay for a new one although they will fit it for free. There was absolutely nothing wrong with this lock before they stripped it down for respraying my door. What can I do as I don't see why I should have to pay for it, I'm already out of pocket for my excess.

The CCTV in the car park didn't pick up the accident but did pick up what they think is the car which hit mine coming into the car park and going out. Can anyone advise me what happens next? We had two possiblities for the Reg no due to the 1st of the last three digits possibly being a O or a D and I'm sure at a distance these could be confused.

My insurance company says the registration number showing as "D" is uninsured so am I lumbered with a bill. That was an expensive shopping trip for me and I hardly bought anything! But a quick search thanks to a link on here shows the same registration number with an "O" is insured and on another website it comes up with it being a Ford Focus. The police refuse to tell me anything due to Data Protection Principles which i fully understand being a law student and just said leave it to my insurance company to contact them and the witness.

If my insurance has managed to get in contact with the other driver / insurance do you think I will have to still lay out the excess and what effect do you think this accident will have on my premiums from now on even though it was a hit and run?

I'm hoping to get my Modeo back at the end of the week (it's due it's tax and MOT start of December and I'm wondering if I should SORN it now for that now just incase it's not ready - advice on this would be appreciated too).

Any idea what will happen to the other driver?


For those of you who have managed to read through this post without getting bored, thank you and I look forward to your advice / comments.

(Finally the police did say where the other car was registered which is not far from me, and a sleepy little place, but said I was not allowed to drive there and bash the other drivers car up with a baseball bat even if it did make me feel a lot better, which I think is rather inconsiderate don't you?)

melancholly

i had my car hit in a supermarket car park once.... no nice minister there to see the registration plate and the cctv was no help (if the resolution is that poor, why bother having it?!)..... not as much damage as your car, and not much more than the excess so didn't claim. rubbish situation! so i don't have any advice, but i know how frustrating something like this is! sounds like the police might be able to get the driver for being uninsured anyway, which may be a slight bonus!

arnie&caseysma!

Obviously the police know who the registered keeper of the vehicle is and they should require them under S172 of the Road Traffic Act to reveal who the driver of the vehicle was. If they fail to provide these details then the reg keeper is committing an offence and will be reported.

If they do reveal who the driver was they will be interviewed under caution regarding the accident and if there is enough evidence (already a witness and their own admission is enough with the witness aswell) the driver can be reported for failing to stop/failing to report the accident.

It is disappointing that the incident isn't captured on CCTV as this would make life a lot easier.

Hopefully their enquiries are successful and you will be given compensation from the other party involved.

Conor_3

Basically from a legal point of view, I doubt the Police will do anything. That's not to say the driver hasn't broken the law - it's just that the Police tend not to take any action.

What will happen with your insurance is that if it's not protected NCB, your premium will increase until the money is recovered from the other driver. Regarding the excess, I hope you paid for legal cover - this is when it really shows its worth. Basically, the legal cover is used to sue the other driver for the excess. They pass it on to their insurers who pay it to you. If they're not insured, you can use that same legal cover to sue the driver personally for the full amount of the claim.

If it's due tax and MOT, SORN it for now until you've got it through its MOT - you can drive a car on SORN with no tax to/from a pre-booked MOT.

ailuro2

fwiw, I park in the Wellgate when I'm downtown in Dundee because it's cheap, but only on level 4,6 or 7 - the outside levels - because there are far too many support columns inside, making maneouvreing (sp?) even smallish cars in and out a nightmare- we have an 03 plate Mondeo- big cars, and not the best mirrors to park with.

If the driver is uninsured, could you not report them as soon as they move their car, since you know where it lives?;)

Check the tax too on the DVLA site- all you need is the reg and the make. Easily reported if out of date in the future. Small comfort, though, sometimes it's best to let it go and concentrate on havinga shiny new door etc. for the car.

Wig

Put the registrations into here
http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/application;JSESSIONID_EvlPortalApp=HMrF1hz154JPVj1mHbSYdn6JNcpHWQbByQnhn12HKFchFJTLQS3n!67647520!-1000834356?origin=vnav_bar.jsp&event=bea.portal.framework.internal.refresh&pageid=Vehicle+Enquiry

It will confirm that it is a Ford or not.

If the minister said it happened at 3:15
And the car was seen entering at 3:11, its obviously the one you want.

How long ago was this?

The police should have gone to inspect the car for damage and then asked the registered keeper for drivers details.

They might have repaired their car by now, with the passage of time it is getting more difficult to prove.


So what I'm getting from all of this is that the minister said the car was a silver Ford Focus reg No W435 DTN or W435 OTN, YOu looked at the CCTV and saw the car.

Did the CCTV catch the Reg No.? Which Reg No. was it?

The police don't want to tell you anything, but they still told you the address of the car?

You can write to DVLA requesting details of the registered keeper because they damaged your car you have a witness, and the police are refusing to help (say because it was on private property) therefore you have a legitimate claim for damages against the keeper of the vehicle, and you request their details.

Wig

On the radio today R4 there was a bit about police efficiency, and they had 3 callers to give examples of bad police management, 2 of them were ok but 1 was borderline. the caller said he hit a car in supermarket car park and heard the crunch but decided to drive off (knowing that he had a tow bar fitted so he wasn't concerned about his car) it was witnessed and the police informed. A few weeks later he says there was a police car came round middle of the night and looked at his car and drove away again. a couple more weeks he had a knock at the door, a police woman told him to report to the duty officer at the station or whatever (can't remember) he feigned innocence and asked what it was about, anyway he was charged with the offence (I think) and the CPS dropped the case.

He was moaning to R4 that the police wasted all that time when all they had to do was knock on his door and ask him to pass on his insurance details to the other party.

The chief of police (or whoever the guest was) said he thought the police had acted properly. Which kind of shows the police in your case are not acting properly.

Happychappy

Hi

Unfortunately you may find it extremely difficult to deal with and often the Police will not get involved unless there is evidence of some other offences such as criminal damage ? which it doesnt sound like.

I would imagine you are considering one of the below, or failing to report a road traffic accident ? the issue is did the collision happen on a public road to which the public have access or was it a private car park.

Driving offences
1 Causing death by reckless driving

A person who causes the death of another person by driving a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
2 Reckless driving

A person who drives a motor vehicle on a road recklessly is guilty of an offence.
3 Careless, and inconsiderate, driving

If a person drives a motor vehicle on a road without due care and attention, or without reasonable consideration for other persons using the road, he is guilty of an offence.

The problem in your case is the car park has more then likely not been deemed to be a Road under the road traffic act and therefore one cannot have a Road Traffic Accident or face one of the above charges. I have put a link into the Stated Case which defines a car park as not a road.

Car park is not a road

Interesting case where car park was a road

Therefore you really do need to find out whether your particular car park forms a road or is considered to be a private car park. It is a difficult subject and quite often the Police will not take it up as it is a civil matter which your insurers must take up and often not a matter the police can deal with as it doesnt come under criminal law. I know it seems a little pedantic, but that is what law is all about.

There are many car parks which are deemed to be Roads under the RTA 1988, but also many others which are not, this however should not stop your insurers earning the money you pay them to investigate, so best of luck

Conor_3

If the car park is one where the public have unrestricted access to, then it is covered by the Road Traffic Act.

cheekyweegit

Hello Everyone,

Can I just say a personal thank you to each and everyone of you for taking the time to get back to me in this stressful time.

I got a phone call from the garage yesterday to say my car is now ready to be picked up today (Friday). I'm so glad to get it back as I've really missed it and the hire car (a Seat Ibiza) is nowhere near as economical as I thought it would be compared to my 10 year old beloved Mondeo.

The cost for repairs £781.xx plus £40 for a new door lock which I've had to get fitted as the old one broke apparently when they tried to fit it back after respraying my door. Oh and the £30 parking ticket I got after helping out a friend and being late, 15 mins over my alloted time in Bell Street Car Park. Yip I'm having a great time of it just now. (My friend was 1 1/2 hours over her ticket in the same car park, same day and got nowt. Who's law springs to mind here?). I've now got to find my £250 excess+£40 for the lock and keep my fingers crossed this can be recovered from the other driver.

Just need to get it taxed, MOT'd and serviced now, but unfortunately I can't get the MOT and service done until a week on Monday as the local garage I use is very busy, so looks like the car will be going off the road again from the 6th as MOT runs out on the 5th. Garage who is MOTing my car said with a repair bill that size, my car should've been written off due to it's age. I'm so glad it wasn't though as I couldn't have afforded a new one.

The wealth of information freely shared on this site is unbelievable, and to think some people say the Internet is a bad and dangerous place. I'd beg to differ.


Thank you once again.

cheekyweegit

Wig wrote: »

Put the registrations into here
http://www.vehiclelicence.gov.uk/EvlPortalApp/application;JSESSIONID_EvlPortalApp=HMrF1hz154JPVj1mHbSYdn6JNcpHWQbByQnhn12HKFchFJTLQS3n!67647520!-1000834356?origin=vnav_bar.jsp&event=bea.portal.framework.internal.refresh&pageid=Vehicle+Enquiry

It will confirm that it is a Ford or not.

If the minister said it happened at 3:15
And the car was seen entering at 3:11, its obviously the one you want.

How long ago was this?

The police should have gone to inspect the car for damage and then asked the registered keeper for drivers details.

They might have repaired their car by now, with the passage of time it is getting more difficult to prove.


So what I'm getting from all of this is that the minister said the car was a silver Ford Focus reg No W435 DTN or W435 OTN, YOu looked at the CCTV and saw the car.

Did the CCTV catch the Reg No.? Which Reg No. was it?

The police don't want to tell you anything, but they still told you the address of the car?

You can write to DVLA requesting details of the registered keeper because they damaged your car you have a witness, and the police are refusing to help (say because it was on private property) therefore you have a legitimate claim for damages against the keeper of the vehicle, and you request their details.

Wig the accident happened on Saturday the 10th November at 2pm. The police checked the CCTV images in the car park (Overgate in Dundee and I was parked on the 7th floor (the very top) and the CCTV images picked up the row of cars infront of mine, but unfortunately not the actual accident itself.

As for seeing the car going in an out of the car park, yes this has been confirmed, by the police, so they can't deny their car was not there or at least in the car park and I'm pretty sure in the Overgate, the camera's pick you up as you go up each level for security, although this has not been confirmed. Unfortunately the camera's did not / could not pick up who was driving, but at least it's a start.

As for inspecting the car for damage, the police hoped to get to them on the Saturday of the accident as they said they had an address in Newport for them which is a small place just across the Tay Bridge which I'm sure if I spent a maximum of 1/2 hour driving round I could find the car myself, but police advised me not to, wonder why? :rolleyes:

I phoned on the Sunday and they hadn't got out and said they should able to get out on the Sunday as they wanted to get to them too before they had a chance to get the vehicle repaired too, as at least over the weekend places would be shut for repairs but once the week started it would be easy to take the car anywhere even out of town to be repaired and get rid of the evidence.

As for the car registration number, your not that far off it with what you have put, but I'm not sure I can post it here for legal reasons, but if you still want it PM me and I'll send it to you. It has come up as taxed on the DVLA website and as a Ford Focus too, albeit, it says it's green, but the Minister thought it was silver - perhaps a pale metallic green?

It also comes up as insured on another website link I've found through a link on here. I can't find the link just now but it was to do with the Motor Insurance Bureau.

I'll give the police a call again later on today and also call up my insurance company to see if they are any further forward in getting the other driver to cough up.

I'll keep you all posted with what happens and yes ailuro2 (:hello: to a fellow Dundonian) I agree with parking in the Welgate and on the outside (normally go to the top because if I happen to park anywhere else, I forget where I've parked the car much to everyone's amusement). As for parking it, I think the Mondeo is no problem at all, what car was a nightmare for me to park was an old X reg Vauxhall Astra in both reverse and driving in situations. Oh memories!

Thanks again