VCS Claim

Le_Kirk

sogu said:

I've had a read through of that thread.  It's very comprehensive. 
Coupon - you have clearly put a lot of time into this, so credit where credit is due. 
I'm just thinking that because it happened outside a hospital, I'll likely be implicating myself by admitting to be an NHS worker. However, this is the only reason I have to avoid a telephone hearing. Any thoughts?

Of course, because all PPCs have a database of every NHS worker!

sogu

Hi. Just a quick update after appearing in court on Friday. 
The case was adjourned as the court and VCS (no surprise) had not received my WS + evidence. I offered to show the judge the email that proved that I had sent it, but he replied that this has happened in a few other cases. It is a good thing I printed off my WS and exhibits. After showing this to the judge, he said that he couldn't possibly make a judgement fairly without VCS having had time to examine my WS. Although I protested, the judge adjourned the case for a later date. 

The judge then asked me to summarise my points of contention. I then proceeded to discuss the red card, POFA not being followed by PPC, fake £60 charge and lack of clear signage. I made it clear that I had wasted enough time on the case but to no avail.The judge actually agreed with my points but still wanted to adjourn it for a later date. 

I'm currently waiting for instructions from the court before I resend my evidence.
Thank you to everyone who has helped me in this case.

Umkomaas

There are loads of VCS non-receipt of WS reports here. It's scandalous that adjournments are being allowed despite Ds having proof of posting. 

Someone mentioned a couple of days ago that the VCS email doesn't accept WS emails. How that's organised, I don't know, I'm just repeating what I read. 

Redx

Make sure your summary costs assessment takes account if this , including further costs and also unreasonable behaviour in not having a dedicated publicly available email address for service of papers and incompetence in not ensuring they have done what is expected of them !! 

Point out that you have fully complied , have proof and have always provided service of papers details etc

Ferrybird

Hi Sogu,
This happened to me with my VCS hearing a month ago also causing it to be adjourned. As @Umkomaas has pointed out above I found out that VCS do not accept service of documents via email. I discovered this as an automatic reply had been sent saying this which went straight to my junk folder..... I've since read that according to CPR they would have to give consent to service of documents by email (although there is some debate around this as CPR is a little behind the pace at which technology has developed, and there are cases where judges have allowed it - do some googling and read, but no need to get side tracked).
I think where we probably fell foul was assuming that as the court was accepting the documents via email due to the pandemic then the claimant would take this reasonable step however, these are not reasonable people. 

When this happened to me I noticed 3 other threads where the VCS/Excel rep had claimed not to have received documents. At the time I had grand plans to collaborate with other people affected and write to our judges and ask for an Extended Civil Restraint Order as per practice direction 3C. Unfortunately I have lost track of the other threads where this happened....but I have not completely given up on the idea. 

Like @Redx says just factor the additional time in to your costs. Post your documents and make sure you keep proof of posting (no need to use signed for). When posting do this 2 days before the deadline as CPR states it is deemed served on the second day after posting.
Look at it this way - the Judge seems to think your arguments have merit. My Judge said that the adjournment was in part to minimise the chance of VCS appealing if I won (possibly this 'we didn't get the papers' is a tactic to increase their chances of a set aside). Your arguments are strong - you have more time to read and prepare and will go to the next hearing more knowledgeable and confident (hopefully).

Good luck!

Coupon-mad

And this weekend: An urgent task – deadline is MONDAY!  

DO YOU WANT TO BE PART OF A CHANGE?

The Government is consulting for just a few more days, about a new statutory code of practice (CoP) and framework intended to rein in the rogue parking firms. 

Does it go far enough?  Read and comment on the draft CoP proposal and the enforcement framework consultation (two separate consultation documents).

HOW TO DO THE SUBMISSIONS:

BSI PAS 232 – COMMENTING ON THE CODE OF PRACTICE AS DRAFTED :

1.    You will need to register then log in, to comment on the CoP and enter an occupation even if you are retired or a homemaker.  

 

2.    Register, log into the BSI page, and download & read the cover letter here:

https://standardsdevelopment.bsigroup.com/projects/2020-00193#/section

 

3.    Read the cover letter again and note the suggested extra questions... if you agree that, say, the 'loading/unloading and dropping off, asking for directions, and disabled people parking on double yellows as they can on street' activities listed should be exempt (not parking events, what do you think?) then please go to the Annexes at the end of the PAS Code and find the one about Exempt Vehicles and state what other activity you think should be added to the exempt list. 

 

4.    Download the PAS itself and start commenting on what you wish to say something about.  Quick links to each section appear on the left of your page. 

 

You don’t have to comment on everything, e.g. you might want to skip the definitions and focus on later sections, and certainly look at the Annex tables at the end that show things like consideration & grace periods and exemptions.

 

5.    Submit comments when you are happy with them. Don’t just ‘SAVE’ and forget!

 

THAT IS HALF THE JOB DONE!

THE MHCLG CONSULTATION IS EASIER AS IT IS JUST A LIST OF QUESTIONS. 

 

6.    You can do it first if preferred or pushed for time:

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=EGg0v32c3kOociSi7zmVqAVPfAOtwRxLhHRwQ610oElUMzhQSVo0WUQ4SERVSEZaUU9DTUhFQ1VMUy4u

If your answers exceed 4000 characters (approx. 500 words to a single question or 16000 words (approx. 2500 words) for all the questions below, you can email your answers to parking@communities.gov.uk as long as you state who you are.

 

 

THESE ARE THE QUESTIONS YOU WILL SEE, FOR RESPONSES TO THE FRAMEWORK:

Q1 Do you agree or disagree that members of APAs should be required to use a single appeals service appointed by the Secretary of State?

Strongly agree/Somewhat agree/Neither agree nor disagree/Somewhat disagree/Strongly disagree

 

Q1.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q2 Please provide any other feedback on the determination of appeals, including the funding model and features that an appeal service should offer e.g. telephone or in-person hearings, the ability to submit evidence online

(free text)

 

Q3 Please provide any comments you have on the proposal to enforce the Code by combining the ATA’s existing audit procedures with additional safeguards.

(free text)

 

Q4 Please outline any alternative means by which the Code could be monitored and enforced. You may wish to cite evidence from other regulatory frameworks which are relevant.

(free text)

 

Q5 Please provide any feedback you have on the proposed governance arrangements for monitoring the new Code of Practice

(free text)

 

Q6 Which parking charge system is most appropriate for private parking?

 a) the Three-tiered system

 b) Mirroring the Local Authority system

(free text)

 

 Q6.1 Please explain your answer. You may, for example, wish to make reference to other deterrent frameworks (for example, for railway tickets or traffic violations)

(free text)

 

 

Q7 What level of discount is appropriate:

40% as is currently offered in private parking and suggested in the three-tiered system, or

50% as is offered in Local Authority parking?

a) 40%

b) 50%

 

Q7.1 Please explain your answer, including whether the discount should be set at a different level

(free text)

 

 

 Q8 How should the level of parking charges be set and how should the levels be revised in future?

(free text)

 

 

Q9 Do you agree or disagree in principle with the idea of the Appeals Charter?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q9.1 Please explain your answer

(free text)

 

 

Q10 Do you agree or not that the examples given in the Appeals Charter are fair and appropriate? Agree/Disagree

 

Q10.1 Please explain your answer.

You may wish, for example, to suggest additional cases to be covered in an Appeals Charter or query existing examples.

(free text)

 

Q11 Do you agree or disagree that the parking industry should contribute towards the cost of the regulation?

Agree/Disagree

 

Q11.1 Please explain your answer.

(free text)

 

YOU CAN INSTEAD GIVE MORE CONCISE ANSWERS ONLINE, USING THE MHCLG PAGE LINK.

Don’t forget that answering these questions is the easier bit…

Looking at the BSI PAS (the draft code of practice itself) involves logging in and submitting comments again, and again and again and takes more time!

There is a discussion about PAS submissions and what the pages look like, here:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6195417/am-i-doing-something-wrong/p1

 

 

 

Umkomaas

An excellent and very helpful post @Ferrybird. 

sogu

Many thanks to those that responded. I will make sure my costs summary takes this into account. 
Wow, I didn't know that VCS do not accept documents served by email. 
Ferrybird - thank you for the detailed post. I am happy to write to the judges if you still want to do that. You are right - I have more time to prepare. The experience of actually having been to court will certainly help me next time. 

Coupon - I have answered the questions to the new framework and submitted my responses on the website. 

nosferatu1001

If they have served YOU docs via email, such as the DQ, you are during pandemic more at liberty to state they must also accept service via email.

sogu

Quick update. 
Had another hearing in March.  Same result - postponed until next hearing in June. 

In the initial hearing,  the judge asked me to resend the documents via email.  I did so a day or so before the second hearing,  as I wasn't certain the hearing was going ahead.  No surprise,  VCS rep hadn't received my evidence nor WS. 

I had to show proof that I had sent the email which I duly did.  The judge didn't wish to postpone it but the rep said she couldn't go through everything in an hour.  In terms of costs,  judge didn't give any despite my protestations.  

I feel the judge was quite rude until he found out I am an nhs worker. 

He ordered for the documents to be emailed and served via post within 48 hours which was carried out.