Can I fight? Retail Park Disabled Bay PCN appeal rejected

crazyvish

My wife had been to a retail park recently with my 8yr and 5yr old daughters. Whilst she was leaving the shopping center at the end of her shopping, our younger one wanted to use the toilet quite badly. This was at on a Saturday (end of November) evening at 18:00. The shopping centre which has one way route marking was apparently busy with cars and she couldn't go back to the center's toilets. Instead, she found burger king on her way out. There were parking bays in front of burger king and all of them were disabled bays (which she didn't realise at that time. There were few bays which were empty. Given the situation she was in, she parked in one of the bays and quickly went in and used the toilets after asking burger king's staff's permission. 10 days later, I received (as I was the registered keeper) a PCN through post from PCM. I was asked to Pay £60 within 14 days as my vehicle has been photographed being parked in a marked disabled bay, without having a valid blue badge displayed.

I haven't told them this story but I made an appeal with one of the templates I found in the forums stating that
- I dispute the parking charge
- I won't be disclosing who the driver was and
- I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence.

PCM rejected my appeal and sent me pictures of my windscreen (which has no blue badge) and to show that the bay was marked yellow with disabled sign on the tarmac. They don't say how long the car was parked for. They have asked me to reach out to IAS if I believe their decision is incorrect. They haven't provided me with any POPLA code.

We don't generally feel good using the disabled bays but this was an unfortunate situation. Whilst I personally feel sorry, their picture was clearly showing that there were more empty disabled bays next to our car during the 5 mins our car was parked there - which make me believe that we haven't caused any material or monetary loss which lead to such a huge fine

Any suggestions on this please? Do you suggest I pay the fine and close the case?

The_Deep

It is not a fine, it is an invoice for the harm your wife allegedly inflicted on the scammer when she breached a contract.

IMO you are most unlikely to win an appeal so you will need to find other ways of getting this cancelled, have you read the stickies/FAQs?

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP as it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

Redx

not much you can do unless Burger King will cancel the pcn due to her asking for permission (its a PCN , an INVOICE , not a "fine)

otherwise its either pay up or court , plus if they adhered to POFA then you as keeper are liable , especially if this was in England or Wales ?

you wont get a popla code, they are IPC not BPA , the IAS wont quash it either

the £100 default charge has been in force for a decade and the Beavis case upheld £85 , so no traction in complaining that it is excessive

PCM have a legal obligation due to the Equality Act 2010 , as do Burger King, to keep ALL disabled parking bays free for those with disabilities , hence the pcn

the choice is yours


PCM have 6 years to try a court case in civil court

Coupon-mad

They have asked me to reach out to IAS

I bet they have, LOL! Errrrm, no.

PCM were outed on BBC Watchdog as a rogue traders who 'make it up all the time':

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2015/05/is-it-pcm-uk-who-make-up-stuff-all-time.html

They were a rough looking motley crew, and are an ex-clamper thug firm. Not worthy of anyone's money.

Defend it in court based on no t&cs sign next to the disabled bay, thus inadequate notice of agreeing to the parking charge of £100, which we KNOW will have been in tiny font on signs nowhere near those bays, so once parked she couldn't tell from any adjacent signage that it wasn't a parent & child bay, which look the same around the edges.

we haven't caused any material or monetary loss

Forget that for a game of soldiers.

Defend the claim next year with our help but DO NOT start looking into rulings about contract law and 'no loss' because our 'Supreme Court' of elderly Judges were so out of touch with real life and parking scams that they actually decided that no loss doesn't matter, in a free car park. Parking Eye v Beavis, 2015. It is NOT like a PCM case/signs.

NO ONE ON THIS FORUM WOULD PAY UNLESS A JUDGE SAID SO (rare here).

DO NOT LET THE SIDE DOWN AND PAY FOR AN EASY LIFE. I hate it when an odd posters says that, like it's OK to support the scam and fund it against other people, so let's set a good example to the family and fight the scammers head on at your local court. It's fun and exhilarating and you can even get a case kicked out on a technical argument about the fact parking scammers add £60 to claims that is unrecoverable (and this can work, regardless of the driver's parking).

So can dodgy signs and lack of adequate notice.

There is no risk, as long as court papers are not ignored, so no questions please about if people who lose get a CCJ or risk their credit rating...read some threads! We win cases and we don't put people at risk.

Only contact PCM again if you move house within the 6 years a claim could be started.

The_Deep

As you will see, you are ensnared in a scam which the law still supports, you will just have to learn the get out gotchas.

crazyvish

@Coupon-mad, thanks for your reply. I was eagerly waiting for your response . I will now confidently ignore their letters and keep an eye out for the court papers. I will come back here when its time.

Le_Kirk

crazyvish wrote: »

@Coupon-mad, thanks for your reply. I was eagerly waiting for your response . I will now confidently ignore their letters and keep an eye out for the court papers. I will come back here when its time.

.......... but in the meantime, I will complain like (Coupon-)mad to BK.

KeithP

How is this progressing? Did Burger King sort it out?

Umkomaas

Jeez Keith, where did you pop up from on this one? 😃

KeithP

Umkomaas said:

Jeez Keith, where did you pop up from on this one? 😃

The OP is now asking for help with a new issue.
Thought it would be nice if @crazyvish kept us up to date on progress with this one too. 

Umkomaas

KeithP said:

Umkomaas said:

Jeez Keith, where did you pop up from on this one? 😃

The OP is now asking for help with a new issue.
Thought it would be nice if @crazyvish kept us up to date on progress with this one too. 

Ah, right. Seems that there are quite a few people who will only update the thread they abandoned when they want help on a new issue!  Maybe they take the free help they get from volunteers for granted - one way expectation!