Should I be worried about still having a back boiler?

Ramagamma

Basically, my little 1 bedroom flat still has a baxi back boiler and gas fire. I've owned the flat for 8 years and its only just this year that we have a small issue with it - basically we can't heat the hot water and the gas central heating independently they need both switched on at the same time. This minor hiccup has set off all sorts of worries in my head.



Reading about back boilers there are 2 main problems people have with them. Inefficiency and aesthetics.


I'm not bothered about the efficiency, the gas engineer that came to service and repair the boiler told us these older boilers are less than 50% efficient compared to 90%+ for a new combo-boiler. We probably spend about 200 quid a year on gas because we only really run it in the winter months for the heating. I tend to just use the kettle for dishes etc rather than heat up the whole tank in the middle of summer.



The ugliness I'm not bothered by. My mother when I first bought the flat said the fireplace was ugly and she'd get rid of it but I personally don't care, as long as it produces heat then its doing its job.


I have the money saved to replace the boiler if it breaks down and absolutely needs to go but I really don't want to. I hear horror stories that people get a brand new boiler and replace it 10 years later. This boiler has probably been in this flat since the 70's but it appears to be doing its job fine still.


Do other people still have these back boilers in their properties? Should I be worried about them being actively dangerous? We get it serviced every year and almost every engineer that comes round says they are an antique these days and would be better replaced.



I suppose its something to think about with re-sale value, much more attractive to have a new boiler in the property but I'd just like to hear some thoughts from people more experienced than me!


Thank you

Mister_G

Your issue with not being able to heat the central heating and hot water separately sounds like a problem with the 3 port valve (assuming that it's a Y plan system), especially if it was OK before. The valve is easily replaced.

I have had a Baxi back boiler for 36 years now and it's still going strong. Minor items like thermocouple and gas valve have had to be replaced, but it has been very reliable - there's not much to go wrong really compared with modern boilers.

It may only be 65% efficient (manufacturers data) but the cost of replacement far exceeds the saving in gas than an improved efficiency would give. You'll be lucky to get a modern boiler to run at better than 85% efficiency in the real world.

jefaz07

Were you event able to heat them independently and it’s not gravity hot water system.
In that hot water can be turned on on it’s own but the heating can’t?

matelodave

It will probably cost you at least £2k to swap out the boiler, probably more if there's a significant amount of plumbing to be altered. A new boiler will have to be of the condensing sort which means it will have to be mounted either on or adjacent to an outside wall to enable the exhaust and condensate to be disposed of.

The old Baxi back boilers are very simple with virtually nothing to go wrong except the pump, gas valve or thermocouple, unlike modern condensing boiler which cost a fortune to put right due to their complexity. Mine was DIY so it would be more expensive if you need to get a plumber in to do it.

If you'll only save £100 a year, just work out how long it will take to recoup £2,000-3,000.

It's relatively easy to fit motorised valves and thermostats to independently control the hot water, heating and even put in zone control (I did it when I had a Baxi backboiler and again when I had a gravity system in a subsequent house) but you really do need to do a cost/benefit analysis to see if it's going to be worthwhile.

IMO you'd be better off keeping what you've got running for as long as you possibly can

Ramagamma

Mister_G wrote: »

Your issue with not being able to heat the central heating and hot water separately sounds like a problem with the 3 port valve (assuming that it's a Y plan system), especially if it was OK before. The valve is easily replaced.

I have had a Baxi back boiler for 36 years now and it's still going strong. Minor items like thermocouple and gas valve have had to be replaced, but it has been very reliable - there's not much to go wrong really compared with modern boilers.

It may only be 65% efficient (manufacturers data) but the cost of replacement far exceeds the saving in gas than an improved efficiency would give. You'll be lucky to get a modern boiler to run at better than 85% efficiency in the real world.

Thanks for replying!


The engineer said it was probably a valve issue, he took up the floorboards in my hall but couldn't find the valve and said it was probably under the laminate flooring in the living room, seems like its an easy fix but its going to be a mission to take up those floorboards and find the valve



Its reassuring to hear other people are still using these boilers. I think the main thing that worries me is that its going to blow up randomly in the middle of the night or something but that looks especially stupid now I've written it down, haha.


Yeah we've replaced the thermocouple 2 or 3 times in the 8 years. I had hoped it was the same issue this time given I know how simple a fix it is but alas, something different!


So I guess I'll just keep running it until it actually breaks and can't be fixed! I'm assuming if a unit like this was going to blow up my living room there would at least be a warning like it refusing to switch on or making odd noises.


Oh the joys!


Thank you!

matelodave

I have never yet heard of a Baxi back boiler blowing up. That's not to say that it's never happened but it's pretty unlikely and if it did would probably be because of something else going wrong in the system (like the header tank drying up).

From where have you picked up this(IMO) irrational fear. Dont forget that it really is more to a plumber's advantage to sell you a new boiler for £2-3k than it is to service it for £50

My mate still has his Baxi backboiler, which was installed sometime in the 1960's and apart from an odd thermocouple (which he changes himself) has never had a problem. He's never bothered with getting it serviced and it still going strong.

Mister_G

The 3 way valve is normally located somewhere near your hot water cylinder (airing cupboard?). Hiding it under floorboards is a bit unusual.

If your system is vented (which judging by the age of your boiler it probably is) then the chances of it "blowing up" are pretty minimal. Pressurised systems are more prone to this, especially when the safety valve fails.

Ramagamma

matelodave wrote: »

I have never yet heard of a Baxi back boiler blowing up. That's not to say that it's never happened but it's pretty unlikely and if it did would probably be because of something else going wrong in the system (like the header tank drying up).

From where have you picked up this(IMO) irrational fear. Dont forget that it really is more to a plumber's advantage to sell you a new boiler for £2-3k than it is to service it for £50

My mate still has his Baxi backboiler, which was installed sometime in the 1960's and apart from an odd thermocouple (which he changes himself) has never had a problem. He's never bothered with getting it serviced and it still going strong.

Haha, thanks Dave. I know its a stupid and irrational fear but for whatever reason its in the back of my mind, I guess its just it being an old piece of technology, being gas powered which I never had experience with growing up and being something that I would be utterly clueless about if anything went wrong.



Makes sense that an engineer would push you towards wanting a whole new system at £2k+ I guess I'm just worrying about if it'll be a problem when it come to sell the flat.



Shouldn't moan as long as I've got the bloody heating working!

FreeBear

Another Baxi back boiler user here. The only problems I have had with it have been the circulating pump failing, and the timer ceasing to function. Neither problems were due to a fault of the boiler, and both relatively cheap and easy to fix. Should the pump ever fail again, I have a spare sitting in the cupboard.

Although I could replace the Baxi with a fancy new condensing boiler, I'd need extensive reworking of the CH plumbing as well as a new gas pipe. Also very limited on suitable wall space which complicates an efficient installation. As pointed out above, the annual savings do not make it worthwhile replacing the boiler. Improving the insulation & plugging draughts costs much less and makes a huge difference.

Ramagamma

Thanks to everyone for the replies


I'm just going to keep the old baxi going as long as she's able. I'll be looking to move out in the next 2 or 3 years so total waste to change now.



Heck who knows, its a small flat with a garden, would be perfect for someone recently retired so maybe the baxi will be a selling point!

Mr_Meanie

matelodave wrote: »

I have never yet heard of a Baxi back boiler blowing up. That's not to say that it's never happened but it's pretty unlikely and if it did would probably be because of something else going wrong in the system (like the header tank drying up).

Our gas back boiler is about 40 years old now, never had a problem with it apart from replacing the thermocouple about every 2-3 years.
I see no point in replacing it until I have to, some of our neighbours have had three condensing boilers fitted within the last 15 years, others have annual repair bills of £100's for their ones.
As for exploding even if the header tank did dry up (as ours did) you would get plenty of warning that somethings not right because your heating and hot water will stop long before the water in the boiler runs dry, I can’t even see much happening even if the boiler did run dry, not that I would want to ever happen to find out.