Chimney breast removal at ground floor level

Monkeysocks42

We are in the process of purchasing a 1930's house and our homebuyers survey has pointed out that the chimney breasts have been removed at ground floor level but remain on the first floor. We have asked our solicitor to request building regulations sign off from the seller but we suspect that this doesn't exist and we know the work was carried out before this seller purchased the property back in 2011. I'm not really sure what we should do if it doesn't have building regs and I'm hoping for some guidance.

From a legal point of view, I think we can probably purchase an indemnity policy although I've no idea how much this will cost but assume it will at least give us something to pass on to a future purchaser when we come to sell.

On the actual works undertaken our surveyor has mentioned that it was obviously carried out some time ago and there does not appear to be any serious issue to date but if remedial works were required this could be in the region of £10K!! We don't expect there to be any room for renegotiation with the seller but for our peace of mind, it would be beneficial to have the work checked but is this even possible? Is there some way for someone (and who would this be) to inspect and confirm if there is sufficient support of some form in place holding up the chimney breasts above ground floor?

nickcc

Unless there were either concrete or steel lintels or an RSJ I would remove the upper chimney breast and chimney stack. There's a considerable weight to support on timber joists alone.

staffie1

Appoint a structural engineer to inspect the work and if satisfactory, obtain retrospective building regs approval from the council. If not satisfactory, pull out. Structural engineer might cost up to £1000.

Monkeysocks42

staffie1 wrote: »

Appoint a structural engineer to inspect the work and if satisfactory, obtain retrospective building regs approval from the council. If not satisfactory, pull out. Structural engineer might cost up to £1000.

Thanks. I couldn't even think would do this so this is really helpful. I'll email some now.

Mutton_Geoff

Monkeysocks42 wrote: »

From a legal point of view, I think we can probably purchase an indemnity policy?

What is the attraction to these indemnity policies? What are you trying to insure? Bad workmanship? Better to spend your money fixing the problem in the first place.


As I've mentioned in several other posts, these policies are the next PPI in waiting. Get a decent surveyor or structural engineer to assess the situation/cost of repair and knock that from your offer. You didn't create the problem so why try and buy a hollow insurance to cover yourself?

Monkeysocks33

We know the indemnity policy wouldn't cover the bad workmanship or the cost to repair any issue that's why we want to get the work inspected. The policy would just be to cover the council potentially requiring us to reinstate the chimney and isn't something we are bothered about but our mortgage lender is likely to feel differently.

The chances of being able to renegotiate our offer are very slim as we're already buying it at £20k less than asking price (not £20k less than its worth but I'm sure the sellers feel differently!).

Davesnave

I doubt if there's £10k of work there, if you leave things alone and just put the correct steels in place.

Who knows, you could even reinstate a fireplace.....radical move, but it's a 30s house, not an 80s box.

AdrianC

Monkeysocks42 wrote: »

We are in the process of purchasing a 1930's house and our homebuyers survey has pointed out that the chimney breasts have been removed at ground floor level but remain on the first floor. We have asked our solicitor to request building regulations sign off from the seller but we suspect that this doesn't exist and we know the work was carried out before this seller purchased the property back in 2011. I'm not really sure what we should do if it doesn't have building regs and I'm hoping for some guidance.

At a decade's remove, the BR paperwork itself is irrelevant, except insofar as it says somebody had at least a brief look to make sure it was up to scratch.

But, after a decade, there'd be signs anyway if it had been badly bodged.

From a legal point of view, I think we can probably purchase an indemnity policy although I've no idea how much this will cost but assume it will at least give us something to pass on to a future purchaser when we come to sell.

Just give them a hug. It'll make the same difference and be cheaper.

An indemnity policy merely covers the costs of the council pursuing for not getting the paperwork. They simply can't after this time anyway.

On the actual works undertaken our surveyor has mentioned that it was obviously carried out some time ago and there does not appear to be any serious issue to date

There y'go, then. Short of ripping plaster off, that's as good as you're going to get.

We don't expect there to be any room for renegotiation with the seller but for our peace of mind, it would be beneficial to have the work checked but is this even possible? Is there some way for someone (and who would this be) to inspect and confirm if there is sufficient support of some form in place holding up the chimney breasts above ground floor?

Sure, but they'll need to make holes in things to actually look. And if you want to do that to somebody else's house, I suspect they might not be thrilled...

Doozergirl

There's no way it's £10k of work for remedial work. £10k is probably the removal of 4 or more chimney breasts, including all the approvals, knocking out, skip hire and making good!

To open it up and replace whatever is there with something decent (if there isn't already) would be a fraction of that.

Whoever said you can't support a chimney breast with timber is wrong. Our SE has often specified triple joists to support stacks, to the satisfaction of building control. Not always, but certainly not never.

Karl.P

Is the house detached or otherwise? If the latter is the chimney backing onto a neighbours chimney, if so it is much more "interesting".

Monkeysocks33

The house is mid terrace so we have the party wall issues to deal with.

We've decided to go down the route of obtaining a quote to have the work rectified to building regs standard involving a structural engineer and all the necessary party wall consents so we know it's all done properly.