Inform insurance company about external wall crack?

SaintAlf

Looking for some impartial advice...during / after the last summer some cosmetic cracks appeared inside our house, which is not unusual as we have had them on and off since moving here in the 80s, but now also a couple of cracks in the mortar between bricks on outside walls on the garage. In September one of the the cracks was about 3mm wide and about a metre or so long and today it's closed, to between nothing and at most 2 mm. May not be relevant but this year we had some building work done outside the house, mainly a new driveway and pathway alongside the garage.

We asked a builder to inspect the cracking and the verdict was natural ground movement and nothing to worry about, however we're sensitive to the subject as we have neighbours across the road who have had underpinning work. We are in an area of clay soil and have large oak trees with tree preservation orders between the houses.

We're about to renew our buildings and contents insurance which covers subsidence, heave or landslip, and there is the usual clause that the house "Has not suffered from or shown signs of subsidence, landslip or heave".

Question is, whilst as far as we know we don't have an issue, should we declare the cracking on the outside walls as a potential sign of subsidence?

Thanks for your advice.

huckster

No you should not mention, unless you have had expert advice, it is possible subsidence, ground heave or landslip.

Most homes have minor cracks, due to general movement.

SonOf

Looking for some impartial advice...during / after the last summer some cosmetic cracks appeared inside our house, which is not unusual as we have had them on and off since moving here in the 80s, but now also a couple of cracks in the mortar between bricks on outside walls on the garage. In September one of the the cracks was about 3mm wide and about a metre or so long and today it's closed, to between nothing and at most 2 mm. May not be relevant but this year we had some building work done outside the house, mainly a new driveway and pathway alongside the garage.

That sounds like every house over 100 years old in our area. Every dry summer, new internal cracks or reopening of previous ones. Sometimes when the old external mortar is worn, a few external ones appear. Or where previous repairs didnt used the right mortar and they pop open again. September is the month that they usually appear. The last two years have been very dry compared to normal (or is that now the new normal)

On clay, your house stretches during the summer. The drier it is, the greater the pull. As the ground moistens up again in Autumn/Winter it contracts. This happens annually and sooner or later a bit will go ping and a crack appears. If you have naturally stretchy building materials, like lime mortar on the outside and lathe and plaster on the inside, then you rarely see it unless it becomes warn out. if sand/concrete mortar is used (either fully or with previous repairs) or switched to hard plaster internally then that does not stretch in the same way.

Movement is not the same as subsidence. Our insurer knows our situation and didnt have an issue with it as its not subsidence. However, we dont use an internet comparison site but NFU as they are better with older buildings.

Each area of cracking we have had has been where the mortar was weak through weathering or previous repairs were the wrong mortar. We get a local builder to take the damaged bricks out, replace them, remove the wrong mortar and use lime mortar and helifix ties with a resin bond to give it improved ability to stretch. It is not that expensive. We did several sections last year and will probably end up doing more each year for the next decade or two. None of which is required to tell the insurer about as it is routine maintenance.

SaintAlf

Thanks for the replies, it's our inclination not to report, it's just that "shown signs of subsidence" is such a vague catch all type statement and we're concerned this could be used as a get out if we needed to make a claim in future. Presumably there's a downside to declaring e.g. it goes on the record, an unnecessary claim/investigation may be recommended, premiums may go up etc. Would you suggest that, if we are concerned, we get expert advice before notifying the insurance company?

SonOf, it sounds like you informed the insurance company?

SonOf

SonOf, it sounds like you informed the insurance company?

Our property has old iron ties in it. So, at some time in the past, some action was taken. That was declared. Plus, we gave the insurer a copy of our survey, when we bought the place, which mentioned a whole load of previous repairs and the fact they were generally poor quality concrete mortar repairs, some of which were reopening and that its likely that cracking will appear albeit cosmetic.

If you are with a quality insurer, they will understand old properties and clay soils and that movement is normal. If you are with an internet comparison site insurer, then I would be less confident about not telling them.

Our insurer quoted us initially and after the movement issues were looked at by the underwriter, they did not increase the premium and said they did not need to be notified when we suffered such cracking and repairs were made to them as they are not subsidence related.

Presumably there's a downside to declaring e.g. it goes on the record, an unnecessary claim/investigation may be recommended, premiums may go up

Again, this comes down to the type of insurer. Some will treat every notification as a claim to be notified on future applications. Some will not.

In your case, you haven't had anyone tell you that you have subsidence and a builder has confirmed it is just movement. So, you really have nothing to notify and can deal with repairs without issue.

SaintAlf

SonOf wrote: »

If you are with a quality insurer, they will understand old properties and clay soils and that movement is normal. If you are with an internet comparison site insurer, then I would be less confident about not telling them.

Thanks - the property is about 40 years old and it is an insurer that's on the comparison sites (LV). So not telling them might well be an issue? It would be handy to know how they would respond. I spoke with someone who works in the insurance profession who suggested erring on the side of caution and informing them because the crack has the typical zig zag appearance although even he was extremely unclear.

eddddy

SaintAlf wrote: »

Thanks - the property is about 40 years old and it is an insurer that's on the comparison sites (LV). So not telling them might well be an issue? It would be handy to know how they would respond. I spoke with someone who works in the insurance profession who suggested erring on the side of caution and informing them because the crack has the typical zig zag appearance although even he was extremely unclear.

If you want to err on the side of caution, get a surveyor or structural engineer to inspect the problem.

If their assessment is that it's subsidence, and they say that you should inform your insurer, then do so at that stage.

If you report this to your insurer before you are sure, it may get reported on an insurance database as "subsidence related", which could cause you major insurance headaches in the future - especially if it isn't really subsidence.


(And stop telling everyone you know - like builders, insurance professionals - that you think your property has subsidence!)

DCFC79

You cant really inform them of the cracks without an experts view, it could be nothing but as pointed out call a structural engineer.

SonOf

You can employ a structural engineer to just carry out a survey in a particular area of the house. You don't need them to do the whole lot. It isn't that expensive. There is a grading scale and the engineer will issue a grading. Anything 2 or less is cosmetic. If the engineer tells you its subsidence then you take action. If he says its movement but cosmetic then you do not notify as you have no reason to notify.

SaintAlf

Thanks everyone for the guidance. As suggested, if we want to err on the side of caution we can get expert structural engineer advice, as it stands it looks cosmetic and the only advice we've had is that it isn't the s word.