esa3 form

Wacko18

OK thank you. Lastly why would people claim IR ESA top up if they are eligible to claim a UC top up instead which is more money? Is there a downside to this I don't know about?

minimad1970

Wacko18 wrote: »

OK thank you. Lastly why would people claim IR ESA top up if they are eligible to claim a UC top up instead which is more money? Is there a downside to this I don't know about?

I wondered that. I used the benefit calculator and it shows I would be better off claiming UC. I'm in the support group for IR ESA but I worry that the assessment might be more difficult with UC and I could lose my award. I don't cope at all well with change. It would be interesting to hear people's experiences.

calcotti

Wacko18 wrote: »

OK thank you. Lastly why would people claim IR ESA top up if they are eligible to claim a UC top up instead which is more money? Is there a downside to this I don't know about?

It isn’t a choice. Income based ESA has been replaced by UC. In the past claims were for ESA. Now all new claims (with a few exceptions) have to be for UC. You are in a position of having your ESA entitlement reassessed simply because DWP didn’t do the IB to ESA transfers correctly.

So nobody can choose to claim income based ESA instead of UC, although they can still make a new claim for contribution based ESA which is now called new style ESA. They can then claim UC in addition to new style ESA.

Everybody currently on income based ESA will eventually have to switch to UC (unless the current plans change). However people who are income based ESA can choose to claim UC instead if they wish to (unless they get a Severe Disability Premium in which case they are not currently allowed to claim UC).

However before anyone decides to change benefits they should do a benefits check. Once on UC a claimant cannot switch back. A claim for UC ends existing claims for ESA, Income Support, Housing Benefit and Tax Credits. Financially some people get more money on UC but others get less. In addition the process of claiming and managing a UC claim requires a little more work than the old benefits and claimants are expected to interact with the DWP online.

There is a lot of information about UC on the link I posted earlier (post #16).

A lot of the practical problems with UC are because DWP staff had not been adequately trained in the new benefit. There are also some (some would say many) design faults but these do not tend to impact people who have stable circumstances such as yourself. It should no5 be forgotten also that the old benefits system is itself full of faults and (as in the case of IB to ESA transfers) is a long way from being error free.

Apologies that we seem to have come a long way from your original question about the ESA3 form!

calcotti

minimad1970 wrote: »

I wondered that. I used the benefit calculator and it shows I would be better off claiming UC. I'm in the support group for IR ESA but I worry that the assessment might be more difficult with UC and I could lose my award. I don't cope at all well with change. It would be interesting to hear people's experiences.

The assessment process under UC is the same as for ESA. For people already on ESA if they claim UC their status is carried over so somebody in the Support Group is entitled to the LCWRA element in UC from the start of their claim (although DWP can take a while to action this). There are also changes to cash flow, ESA paid fortnightly and UC paid monthly - obviously this has less impact on those who retain an entitlement to fortnightly contribution based ESA payments.

minimad1970

Thanks calcotti for explaining things.

TELLIT01

One thing I have never been clear on is whether or not a move from legacy benefits to UC would create a break in benefit payment. There have been many horror stories of people not getting paid for many weeks when starting a UC claim. Do payments on the existing legacy benefits continue until UC is set up and ready to go, or does the legacy benefit close down when the UC claim is made. I would think a potentially prolonged break in payment would be enough to stop many claimants voluntarily moving to UC even if they would be better off in the long term.

calcotti

TELLIT01 wrote: »

One thing I have never been clear on is whether or not a move from legacy benefits to UC would create a break in benefit payment. There have been many horror stories of people not getting paid for many weeks when starting a UC claim. Do payments on the existing legacy benefits continue until UC is set up and ready to go, or does the legacy benefit close down when the UC claim is made. I would think a potentially prolonged break in payment would be enough to stop many claimants voluntarily moving to UC even if they would be better off in the long term.

Legacy benefits stop on the day UC is claimed with the exception of Housing Benefit which runs on for two weeks. The first UC payment is then normally one month and a week after the start of the UC claim. This obviously creates a problem for claimants used to fortnightly benefit payments. This is one of the major criticisms of UC.

A UC advance can be requested but this has to be paid back by deduction from the next 12 payments.

I agree this is a deterrent to making a voluntary switch to UC. Under legislation other legacy benefits will also have a two week run for UC claims made after 22 July 2020. (I don’t understand why the government drafts legislation which is clearly intended to address problems that have been identified but then defers the implementation.)
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2019/1152/made
The Universal Credit (Managed Migration Pilot and Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2019

For claimants who maintain an entitlement to contribution based ESA these payments will continue fortnightly which makes the transition much easier.

Alice_Holt

TELLIT01 wrote: »

One thing I have never been clear on is whether or not a move from legacy benefits to UC would create a break in benefit payment. There have been many horror stories of people not getting paid for many weeks when starting a UC claim. Do payments on the existing legacy benefits continue until UC is set up and ready to go, or does the legacy benefit close down when the UC claim is made. I would think a potentially prolonged break in payment would be enough to stop many claimants voluntarily moving to UC even if they would be better off in the long term.

As calcotti has indicated there is a 5 week wait.

Another factor is the claimant supplying tenancy agreements in order for the housing element to be paid, and then the DWP managing to correctly process their UC claim.
https://www.thesun.co.uk/money/8972138/universal-credit-errors-are-pushing-people-in-to-debt-charity-warns/
A 20% error rate can have a severe impact on claimants.

Some errors can be disastrous as Universal Credit is an all-in-one benefit, with all your eggs in one basket, when things go wrong with UC everything is affected.
This is further compounded by very poor MR decision making and the unacceptably long tribunal waits of beyond 9 months.

It can be particularly difficult for single parents (following a relationship breakdown) with young children, who are subject to the Right to Reside UC tests.
RtR is an area where DWP employee's knowledge / expertise is particularly weak.
For these families Child Tax Credits and Housing Benefit have stopped and can't be re-started, but the UC claim has been refused. Apart from food banks, there is little or no safety net.

https://www.parliament.uk/business/committees/committees-a-z/commons-select/work-and-pensions-committee/news-parliament-2017/universal-credit-survival-sex-launch-17-19/

TELLIT01

Thanks calcotti and Alice Holt. That information will hopefully be helpful to anybody considering a voluntary move between benefits. It would be great if those could be made 'sticky' so they are permanently visible.

Wacko18

Thanks calcotti. I sent u a pm.