Subtenant rights

8bits

Hi,
My girlfriend has moved to a room as a subtenant in London. She pays the rent directly to one other tenant that has been in the flat for many years (the "lead tenant" or "immediate landlord" is how it is called I think). There is a "lead tenant" and 3 other tenants, one of them being my GF, in this flat.

From my understanding, she is a subtenant and not a lodger as who she pays the rent to is *not* the landlord. This "lead tenant" has lived here for a very long time and deal with an agency to pay the rent, so it looks like my GF is a subtenant. Please correct me if I am wrong.


Now assuming she is indeed a subtenant, we don't know if the subletting is legal or not (i.e. if the "lead tenant" has the landlord's approval) but assuming it is, I am wondering what exactly are my GF's rights.


She basically signed a "tenancy breakdown agreement" (which does not seem to be an AST) that is poorly written. It has very specific conditions in how she could get her deposit back. For example, it looks like she can leave the property by giving 1.5 month notice after a 6 month stay, but she still needs to find a new tenant.
Another weird clause says she won't get her deposit back if she is "being away, not available to do all above [i.e. finding a new tenant] for more than 4 days in a row during the period of 1.5 month notice period".

Here's the tenancy: https://i.imgur.com/re0mTzx.jpg

Is this type of tenancy/document even legal? What kind of legal right does my GF has to get back her deposit assuming she leave the room clean after 6 months?

Who should she contact if the "lead tenant" won't want to return her deposit?

Fosterdog

I'm a bit confused on how this is set up but it certainly sounds like she may be a lodger and not a tenant.

Does she have any contract all with the lead tenants landlord/agency?

This is not subletting as it sounds like the lead tenant is also living at the address. At most she will be a tenant who has been added to an existing tenancy, but it sounds more like she is in fact a lodger with an agreement just between her and the actual tenant of the property.

8bits

I thought to be considered a lodger you would need to live with your landlord? By landlord I mean the person who owns the property (in the sense of having bought it).

In this case, the "lead tenant" is indeed also living at the address and is collecting the rent from the 3 other rooms/subtenant in the flat and then pay the agency/landlord every month. I suspect this person is not even paying a rent since this person is setting the price of each room.

My GF only has signed the document above, which is signed by her and this "lead tenant" person. She does not have any contact or signed contract with the agency or the landlord.

davidmcn

8bits wrote: »

I thought to be considered a lodger you would need to live with your landlord? By landlord I mean the person who owns the property (in the sense of having bought it).

Her landlord is the person who has the tenancy for the whole flat.

AdrianC

She is a lodger. Her landlord is resident.

I'd be most concerned about whether the actual owner of the property was aware of the situation, and whether the tenancy for the property as a whole permitted subletting. Are there sufficient occupants to qualify as an HMO?

8bits

Alright -- so let's say she is a lodger.
Indeed, we don't know if what this person (let's still refer to this person as the "lead tenant"), is doing is legal, but it's almost impossible for us to know if the owner of the property is aware as the only point of contact is this person. My GF doesn't even know the agency's name.

It seems there are sufficient occupants to qualify as HMO indeed. They are 4 unrelated people in total with 4 bedrooms (single occupancy), 1 shared kitchen, 1 shared bathroom/toilet, no living room.

AdrianC

It definitely isn't illegal, except if HMO licencing is needed but not in place.
It might be in breach of their tenancy, which may lead to the "lead tenant" being given s8 notice and everybody having to move.

G_M

8bits wrote: »

Hi,
My girlfriend has moved to a room as a subtenant in London. She pays the rent directly to one other tenant that has been in the flat for many years (the "lead tenant" or "immediate landlord" is how it is called I think). There is a "lead tenant" and 3 other tenants, one of them being my GF, in this flat.
Is your gf named as a joint tenant on the same tenancy agreememt as the " "lead tenant" and the other occupants? No? I thought not.
So the "lead tenant" is her landlord and she is the "lead tenant's" lodger.

From my understanding, she is a subtenant and not a lodger as who she pays the rent to is *not* the landlord.
Your understanding is clearly wrong. She pays rent to her landlord, the '"lead tenant".

This "lead tenant" has lived here for a very long time and deal with an agency to pay the rent, so it looks like my GF is a subtenant. Please correct me if I am wrong.
You are.

Now assuming she is indeed a subtenant, (which she is not) we don't know if the subletting is legal or not (i.e. if the "lead tenant" has the landlord's approval) but assuming it is, I am wondering what exactly are my GF's rights.
She has the rights of a lodger.
Her contract is with the "lead tenant" - her landlord. Without knowing the details of the contract between them it is impossible to fully describe her rights, but....
She does not have any tenancy rights.

She basically signed a "tenancy breakdown agreement" (which does not seem to be an AST) that is poorly written.
Quite common with lodger agreements where the landlord knows little about contract law.

It has very specific conditions in how she could get her deposit back. For example, it looks like she can leave the property by giving 1.5 month notice after a 6 month stay, but she still needs to find a new tenant.
The "needs to find a new tenant." is almost certainly unenforcible under contract law, but the "1.5 month notice after a 6 month" is a valid contract term.

Another weird clause says she won't get her deposit back if she is "being away, not available to do all above [i.e. finding a new tenant] for more than 4 days in a row during the period of 1.5 month notice period". Again I believe this is unenforcible.

Here's the tenancy: https://i.imgur.com/re0mTzx.jpg

Is this type of tenancy/document even legal? Yes, though some specific terms are not enforcible.
What kind of legal right does my GF has to get back her deposit assuming she leave the room clean after 6 months?
If her rent is up to date, she gives the proper notice, and has not caused damage, she should get her deposit back.

Who should she contact if the "lead tenant" won't want to return her deposit?

If her LL refuses, she would have to go to court.

Lilythecat

I wouldn’t ordinarily suggest this or condone it but she should consider if she is likely to get her deposit back and if not then withhold her rent in her last month to compensate. The deposit protection scheme is in place to protect both parties and without it you are at the whim of the LL.

If there is damage she’d have to go to court to argue it out but she should bare it in mind esspecially if it’s an unregistered HMO which it just be.

G_M

Lilythecat wrote: »

....... esspecially if it’s an unregistered HMO which it just be.

That of course is a different, but possibly relevant, issue.

There is a "lead tenant" and 3 other tenants, one of them being my GF, in this flat.

https://www.gov.uk/house-in-multiple-occupation-licence

A house in multiple occupation (HMO) is a property rented out by at least 3 people who are not from 1 ‘household’ (for example a family) but share facilities like the bathroom and kitchen. It’s sometimes called a ‘house share’.
If you want to rent out your property as a house in multiple occupation in England or Wales you must contact your council to check if you need a licence.
You must have a licence if you’re renting out a large HMO in England or Wales. Your property is defined as a large HMO if all of the following apply:

• it is rented to 5 or more people who form more than 1 household
• some or all tenants share toilet, bathroom or kitchen facilities
• at least 1 tenant pays rent (or their employer pays it for them)

Even if your property is smaller and rented to fewer people, you may still need a licence depending on the area. Check with your council.

[Deleted User]

The problem is, as a lodger, she has few protections re eviction and if she doesn't pay rent, she could find herself simply locked out.