Vendor changing his mind re: lease

rlkk

AdrianC wrote: »

Are you looking at the right property?
The registered title for the other flat will be leasehold, though.

Definitely the right property. I can see title register and title plan for both flats. Nothing else apart from the flood risk indicator result. Very odd. Maybe I need to fill out and send off the OC2?

davidmcn

rlkk wrote: »

Definitely the right property. I can see title register and title plan for both flats. Nothing else apart from the flood risk indicator result. Very odd. Maybe I need to fill out and send off the OC2?

Aren't you just duplicating work your solicitor will be doing (or has possibly already done)?

rlkk

davidmcn wrote: »

Aren't you just duplicating work your solicitor will be doing (or has possibly already done)?

You’re right. I’ll stick to my original plan of asking them to track down a copy of the lease asap.

AnotherJoe

Instead of owning half the freehold and potentially getting into a situation where you might not be able to agree with the other party you'll own the whole thing and be able to make your own decisions at your timescale.

eddddy

AnotherJoe wrote: »

Instead of owning half the freehold and potentially getting into a situation where you might not be able to agree with the other party you'll own the whole thing and be able to make your own decisions at your timescale.

To some extent, but you'll be bound by whatever the lease says - for example, some leases stipulate how often the building must be repainted etc.

As a freeholder, you'll also have all the responsibilities documented in the lease, the Landlord and Tenant act, The Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act, etc, etc.

G_M

AdrianC wrote: »

Hundreds, I'd have thought.

You can get the other flat's lease from LR for three quid.

No you can't.

£3 will get you the Leasehold Title - not the lease itself. Assuming the lease is lodged with the land registry, you can get a paper copy for £7.

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/official-copies-of-documents-registration-oc2


What size building is this? How many flats/leases? Do you want to be managing a block of 10 flats on your own?


I believe it is possible for one flat to be included in the freehold (no lease), with the other flat(s) being granted leases, but one of the solicitors here can confirm/correct me.

AnotherJoe

eddddy wrote: »

To some extent, but you'll be bound by whatever the lease says - for example, some leases stipulate how often the building must be repainted etc.

Isnt that normally the responsibilty of the freehold? How can the leaseholder get to paint the whole building if they only have a lease for their part? More usually the freeholder would control that and charge the leaseholder.

eddddy wrote: »

T
As a freeholder, you'll also have all the responsibilities documented in the lease, the Landlord and Tenant act, The Commonhold and Leasehold Reform Act, etc, etc.

True but OP woudl have had all those anyway, just having to share them with someone else.

AlexMac

Assuming your property is a conversion, with only two flats, I'd observe that I bought a house just like that in about 2006-7. I occupied the hall floor and 1st floor. A leaseholder owned the basement.

Luckily- I had no problems.

My lender then (the Halifax) raised no objections. Even better although the building needed a lot of work, the downstairs leaseholder behaved extremely well, and chipped in their 33% towards the new roof which the building required, even though their antique lease was a bit vague about finances.

So I'd be asking about what's in "their" lease (assuming you have a "them" in terms of the other owner or landlord of the other occupant)? As freeholder you'll presumably have an insuring liability for the whole building, and probably some repairing obligation. This could extend to not only common areas but also roof, external decs and rainwater goods, windows, brickwork and even rising or penetrating damp. A decently worded lease should be clear on all of these, as well as how costs are divvied up on- equally, or pro-rata to floorspace or Rateable Values.

The other consideration is whether these tenure and Freehold management issues will deter lenders or buyers when you come to sell on? Either way, it's all fixable by solicitors, but if I was buying, and especially given the slight initial ambiguity about what was being sold, I'd argue that should be at the seller's expense or be reflected in the price.

Ironically, when I sold my Freehold, I had no problem. In fact the buyer was quite keen, as later, they bought out the basement lease, and re-instated the property as a single 3-storey family dwelling. Round here, a big house with a garden tends to be worth more that 2 flats!

The Estate Agent works for the seller, not you, but will have to pass on your well-argued case for a few quid off to sort this. But make sure YOU set the terms of any new lease rather than accepting one off the shelf; another property I bought had a sting in the tail of the lease which I didn't notice til I sold on. Cost me a couple of hundred quid on selling! Should have gone to Specsavers- or engaged a better solicitor for tthe purchase!

rlkk

Loads of useful advice on here, thank you. Really appreciate you sharing your knowledge and experience.

It seems that the crucial thing is to see a copy of the other flat’s lease, then find out if my lender will still lend. Will get onto the solicitors first thing on Monday.

Heartfelt thanks to you all.

rlkk

Okay, so a bit of an update on this.

It transpires that the vendor is not the sole owner of the freehold. It’s owned jointly with his ex-wife (as tenants in common), who is currently uncontactable. He’d conveniently forgotten to mention this when filling out the solicitors’ paperwork. Suspect the ex doesn’t even know her flat’s for sale.

Obviously, I can’t buy the flat now without a) a lease or b) both shares of the freehold. He’s still refusing to provide a lease and she’s not replying to anyone, so it’s a no go.

Where do I stand legally? I’ve wasted time and money trying to buy a flat that was unbuyable all along! If it’s been marketed without the permission of both owners, isn’t the EA breaching the estate agents’ code of practice? And is the guy trying to sell it without his ex’s permission liable for anything? He’s deliberately given false information to the solicitors, and possibly the EA too.

What a mess.