Pcn - ncp

greenbluegreen

Hi guys,

I've receive an NCP PCN (Which I was expecting).

Reason for it was that at the time I was unaware its a pre-paid parking.

The duration was approx 2 hours. I then left the site (which I found later was a mistake) and called customer services explaining the situation and that I'd like to make a payment. I was told by the lady that I can pay online within 24h and this will be ok. I've made the payment but of course there wasn't an option to set time in the past and just paid for the duration with time showing in the future.

This raised a red flag to me and I've used the online chat function. Here is a copy of the transcript.

Chat With xxxxxxx On 03/11/2019 14:36:56
https://www.ncp.co.uk
email: xxxxxxxxx@xxxxxxxx
phone: xxxxxxxxxxx
query: General Enquiry
Operator says At 14:36:50:
Thanks for contacting National Car Parks. Someone will be with you soon
Operator says At 14:36:58:
Hello xxxxxxxx. My name is xxxxxx how can I help you?
xxxxxxx says At 14:39:29:
Hi there, I’ve park at 15123 without realising it’s pre paid parking. I’ve been advised by NPC customer service
that it’s still ok to pay after my stay which I did via PaybyPhone. Obviously this is now showing current hours and
not the real ones. Will that get me in trouble? I have screenshots of payments in the app
xxxxxxx says At 14:39:52:
Paid 8.30£ for 2 hours
xxxxxxx says At 14:41:10:
I am sorry to hear that. So long as the payment was made while you were still parked in the car park and was
for the correct amount of time that you were parked for it would cover your visit, even if the payment is showing a
furture time.
xxxxxxxx says At 14:41:46:
It was made 20 min later hope that’s ok
xxxxxxxx says At 14:42:13:
Essentially I’ve left the car park and stopped and paid
xxxxxxxxx says At 14:43:28:
Can you also email me a copy of this conversation please?
Kaloyan Ivanov says At 14:44:07:
Photo of Payment made
Photo of payment made
xxxxxxxx says At 14:44:47:
photo of payment made
xxxxxx says At 14:45:44:
I can send you a copy of this chat yes. In relation to your payment I am not sure if this would cover your
parking, due to how the cameras work;
xxxxx says At 14:46:56:
Well I’ve been told I can pay within 24 hours and this will be ok. I’ve attached the payment I’ve made. I really
don’t want to receive a PCN for this.
says At 14:47:05:
Told*
Kaloyan Ivanov says At 14:48:33:
is there no way for you to make a note that I’ve paid ?
xxxxxx says At 14:53:11:
With the way the system works the camera would have noted your exit without a payment being made, this
would mean that any notice would automatically be issued, and as such even if I was to note this I could not
prevent the notice from being sent out as the note would not be picked up until the team is back in the office
tomorrow. If you do receive a notice you can always appeal and provide the evidence of the payment made - they
will then put the notice on hold and then they will make the decision in relation to whether or not to accept the
appeal or reject it.
xxxxxxx says At 14:54:21:
Ok, can you please send me copy of this correspondence ?
xxxxx says At 14:56:50:
Of course. I can send this out once the chat has ended. Is it okay to use the email address that you have
provided in the pre-chat survey?
xxxxxx says At 14:57:02:
Yes please
xxxxxx says At 15:00:30:
Thank you. I will close this chat now and send the chat over to you.
xxxxxx says At 15:02:35:
Operator xxxxx forced closed session.
Operator Chat Wrap Up

Obviously 'not naming the driver' wouldn't work, but this shouldn't be needed.

Is this going to be a case of appealing by providing receipts of payment and this transcript?

Many thanks,
green

KeithP

Oh dear. So you have told NCP who was driving. That's a shame.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, or to all likely candidates now, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and often, if they know an MP is in the loop, they will cancel the charge..

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

You will lose at POPLA but win in court. Sums it up, really!

Three mistakes:

1 - not covering your numberplate when driving out past the exit camera:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76503299#Comment_76503299

2 - phoning them and believing the scammers were actually 'helping'.

3 - blabbing about being the driver.

See you in 2020 when you've lost at POPLA and when you get a Court claim, to defend and win because they misled you and all the other stuff about unclear signs and the fake added sixty quid at that stage...all the stuff that wins in court will be there for you.

But not for appeal stage, as you will lose. But try POPLA anyway, unclear signs and no landowner authority and the fact they misled you.

greenbluegreen

Oh my.... I can't believe this,

I've paid after, requested a chat transcript and have receipts. And that is actually against me?
I've been through a similllar thing and it was really stresfull at the time to prepare defence and all that, I won at the end, but it was really bad emotional experience.

Ok rant over

Let sum this up:

1) I don't challenge the PCN on NCP's webpage - skipping this part?
2) I try and challenge it at POPLA (which is unlikely to be sucessfull?)
4) Ignore debt collector letters (Obviuously)
3) I wait for County Court Claim and then prepare for defence and hoping to win?

Honestly, I've won this before (with all the help from you guys!) but I still remember how stresfull it was at the time, its giving me horrible flashbacks now. I feel horible for saying this as these are really big scammers (all of them) but I am really considering paying..... for something I've paid and wanted to mike right after an honest mistake...

Here is my old thread https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5798509/parked-on-private-property-qdr-solicitors&page=3#topofpage

Thanks again for everything guys!

Coupon-mad

1) I don't challenge the PCN on NCP's webpage - skipping this part?
2) I try and challenge it at POPLA

No, you have no access to POPLA until NCP reject an appeal and give you a code. You need to read the NEWBIES tread for what to do first.

Your story is pretty likely to lose at POPLA, yes, as they cannot consider mitigation or the 'story of what went wrong', which is why I told you to try two other points instead at that stage - see the 3rd post of the NEWBIES thread.

4) Ignore debt collector letters (Obviously)

Yup.

3) I wait for County Court Claim and then prepare for defence and hoping to win?

99% win here, and you can do it again!

but I am really considering paying

No.

greenbluegreen

Here is what NCP replied with:

Thank you for your appeal received on 02/12/2019 regarding the above detailed Parking Charge
Notice, we have reviewed your case and considered the comments you have made. Your appeal has
also been considered in conjunction with the evidence gathered by our Automatic Number Plate
Recognition cameras, which record your entry and exit times. Our records show the notice was
correctly issued as your vehicle was parked in breach of the Terms and Conditions of Parking.
We can confirm that the payment you made covered your parking period for 30 minutes. Your parking
session was for a total of 1 hour and 33 minutes.

We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge Notice as it was issued correctly. We have now
extended the discounted payment period by a further 14 days to allow you time to pay the discounted
settlement amount. Please now make payment of £60 to reach us by 27/12/2019 or £100 to reach us
by 10/01/2020. We must advise you that once the discounted settlement rate passes it will not be
offered again.


Now it is true that I've attempted to pay on the machine, but as soon as I paid for 30 min , I then realised that it's showing time in the future, then decided it's not going to work that way. I've then left the site and paid on the app for the rest of the duration. It seems that they ONLY considered the offline payment at the machine (pre-exit).

Its time for a POPLA appeal I suppose......

How likely is the appeal to fail at POPLA stage? (out of interest)

Many thanks,
Green

Redx

the only chance of winning at popla is on a legal technicality, like Beckham when he was caught speeding and the NIP arrived one day late

so poor and inadequate signage , no landowner authority , any BPA CoP errors etc , certainly not on "what happened" - at popla

nobody can tell you the odds at popla , we see ones lose that should have won

but a judge will listen to your story of what happened, in court , then a legal decision would be made , especially as you appear to have paid AFTER THE FACT , so not bilking

Coupon-mad

I would reply to them and ask why they didn't match the subsequent app payment to your data as well, because full payment was made. May as well place a marker, ready for court if needed.

Then start reading NCP POPLA appeals and those about app payments made, and copy the templates from the NEWBIES thread post #3.

fisherjim

greenbluegreen wrote: »

We are therefore unable to cancel the Parking Charge.

Which is a total and utter big fat lie!


Of course they can and should, and that is exactly what the whole appeal process and what the POFA is supposed to be in place for.


But of course greed overcomes any sense of fair play or what is right, and PCN income is far more lucrative per vehicle than parking fees.


The first appeal should be for the PPC to consider mitigating circumstances, etc. But 99% are rejected.
The second (POPLA) appeal is to challenge technicalities, signage, procedural etc not what happened on the day.

greenbluegreen

Coupon-mad wrote: »

I would reply to them and ask why they didn't match the subsequent app payment to your data as well, because full payment was made. May as well place a marker, ready for court if needed.

Then start reading NCP POPLA appeals and those about app payments made, and copy the templates from the NEWBIES thread post #3.

They don't really give me a fair chance to reply . Here is what was in the body of the email (in caps as well!)

Please find important correspondence attached regarding your Parking Charge
Notice.

'DO NOT REPLY TO THIS EMAIL.

UNLESS YOU HAVE BEEN SPECIFICALLY ASKED TO PROVIDE FURTHER INFORMATION
REGARDING YOUR PARKING CHARGE, ANY EMAILS SENT TO THIS INBOX WILL NOT BE
VIEWED OR RESPONDED TO.'

Then a PDF attachement with the outcome of my appeal. Is there an alternative email that I can write to them that will be viewed or responded to?

Thanks,

Green