CEL parking charge

ncz20

Hi everyone,

First time newbie here. Tried looking through the newbie guides and previous posts but still wasn't completely sure on how to proceed.

I received a PCN from Civil Enforcement Ltd for an alleged overstay in a car park attached to a small shopping mall. My wife was shopping at Morrison's in the shopping centre on the date of the incident. My car was used to go pick her up from the shopping centre but she needed to breastfeed my newborn son when the car arrived, leading to the car being stationary in the car park without a ticket for a while whilst waiting for my wife to breastfeed - the shopping centre did not have any space for breastfeeding. The total alleged time without a ticket in the PCN is 22 mins.

We've complained to Morrison's who were sympathetic but they don't own the car park so couldn't do much. After calling around it seems the car park is owned by ABC Parking Solutions (which I believe is basically the same company as CEL?) and of course they were no use at all.

I understand the first course of action is to appeal the PCN with CEL and get a POPLA code? I've found the standard appeal template but thought it might be useful to add some details at the end:

Re PCN number:[]
I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner at Butterfly Walk and to my MP.
There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:
- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.
- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.
- In all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

In order to resolve the dispute I attach a copy of the transactions made by one of the occupants of the vehicle at Morrisons at Butterfly Walk on the date of the incident as proof that the occupant was a customer at Morrisons and therefore entitled to free parking with the landowner. I further submit to you that the occupant is a new mum who was required to breastfeed at the time of the incident and therefore also entitled to reasonable adjustments to parking periods.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,
[]



I'm anticipating this appeal would be rejected (as always) and subsequently it would be getting a POPLA code and making an independent appeal there and that's where we would be making more detailed arguments against the PCN? The PCN is addressed to me, the registered keeper of the vehicle with a date, location, time of parking and request to pay £100 as ' payment not made in accordance with terms displayed on signage', but no other information. The letter arrived in my letter box 13 days after the incident. Would it be worth the effort (given the strains of looking after a newborn)?


Any help would be hugely appreciated thanks!

Umkomaas

After calling around it seems the car park is owned by ABC Parking Solutions (which I believe is basically the same company as CEL?) and of course they were no use at all.

I'd be pretty certain that neither company own the car park, you need to do more digging on that front, as once you find the landowner, you can apply pressure on them vis a vis the breastfeeding element of the Equality Act 2010 and get them to cancel the charge.

Your initial appeal and added bit is ok, with just a slight edit needed:

I further submit to you that the occupant is a new mum who was required to breastfeed at the time of the incident and therefore [STRIKE]also[/STRIKE] legally entitled to reasonable adjustments [STRIKE]to parking periods[/STRIKE] under The Equality Act 2010.

ncz20

Thanks!

Just on second thought to the last bit I've added, the free parking is through buying a ticket and validating the parking at a shop, which was not completed as the vehicle was not anticipating to be parking until my wife needed to breastfeed (and then in the stress of breastfeeding publicly, subsequently completely forgot about).

I've since lost the full receipt though Morrison's have said they'd be happy to reprint a copy for us if we went to the store. What I have instead is a transaction line with Morrison's from my bank statement, but that was completed the following day.

Would I need to change that last paragraph again?


From our phone calls, it seems like ABC Parking Solutions owns the car park and CEL is the contracted party for parking enforcement. But ABC were not interested in listening to us at all.

Umkomaas

Just on second thought to the last bit I've added, the free parking is through buying a ticket and validating the parking at a shop, which was not completed as the vehicle was not anticipating to be parking until my wife needed to breastfeed (and then in the stress of breastfeeding publicly, subsequently completely forgot about).

I think you're forming the impression that the PPC will read your appeal. They won't, but even if they do, your mitigating pleadings will carry no sway. There's no money in cancelling parking tickets! And the last thing you need to be doing is inadvertently admitting culpability. That's why we strongly advice not to add anything to the forum template. So many dig a big hole for themselves in trying to 'explain things', hoping for an empathetic ear.

You've done enough to flag up the breastfeeding issue - should this get as far as a court hearing.

You could take up Morrison's offer, it might be a helpful bit of evidence further down the line.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, or to all likely candidates now, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and often, if they know an MP is in the loop, they will cancel the charge..

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

bergantet

ncz20 said:

Thanks!

Just on second thought to the last bit I've added, the free parking is through buying a ticket and validating the parking at a shop, which was not completed as the vehicle was not anticipating to be parking until my wife needed to breastfeed (and then in the stress of breastfeeding publicly, subsequently completely forgot about).

I've since lost the full receipt though Morrison's have said they'd be happy to reprint a copy for us if we went to the store. What I have instead is a transaction line with Morrison's from my bank statement, but that was completed the following day.

Would I need to change that last paragraph again?


From our phone calls, it seems like ABC Parking Solutions owns the car park and CEL is the contracted party for parking enforcement. But ABC were not interested in listening to us at all.

Hi, did you found the email address of the landowner to send them an email? I've got similar issues with ABC Parking Solutions and CEL
Thanks in advance

Le_Kirk

Last activity by the OP was the day they posted and nothing since.  You might try a PM - use the envelope symbol top right of the forum.

bergantet

Le_Kirk said:

Last activity by the OP was the day they posted and nothing since.  You might try a PM - use the envelope symbol top right of the forum.

thanks I've pm him