Humidity and damp smell problems desperately need help

agylk

I'm sorry this is so long but I tried to cover everything to get the best advice.

I will explain the situation with humidity and damp in my flat in the hope that someone can help solve the mystery because so far, in spite of all the correct actions taken and damp surveyors who cannot find any problems, the flat smells of damp even with the windows open wide from April till Sept permanently, the humidity is high and damp has damaged my possessions. Even my hair smells of damp, which is very upsetting.

First problem: this is an old building with single brick walls therefore no possibility for insulation. As if that wasn’t enough, I have three external walls for maximum heat loss so no neighbours either side to raise the temperature.

I do absolutely EVERYTHING per book to reduce humidity. I air, I heat, I dry my laundry in the bathroom with the door shut and dehumidifier on. I also use the dehum for after longer showers. Otherwise I open the bathroom window although that doesn’t help much. I have moved my furniture away from external walls to avoid mould growth in nooks and crannies. I don’t own drawers or a wardrobe so all clothing has adequate air flow and YET, mould grew on a high number of items.

Biggest problem in the flat so far has been the extreme drops in temperature due to lack of a thermostat. When temperature drops and items in my flat are cold, all moisture will settle on the items and mould will grow. Getting a thermostat will involve a complete overhaul of my heating system incl a new boiler to the tune of about £2.5k. It will also mean that I will be paying for heating 24/7 as overnight the temperate in my flat can drop as low as 9C! The thermostat would need to keep the flat at the bare minimum 16C permanently (and more when I’m not sleeping or working). I think dew point is 14C at which point moisture will settle on my possessions and mould will grow. So this means A LOT of money to heat. This is something quite upsetting as I have lived in at least 10 homes in the last decade and I have NEVER had to heat my home 24/7 and pay so much in bills. Naturally I am bitter and annoyed that this should be happening. But ok…. I don’t have a new heating system just yet so I have done the next best thing I could for now and got thermostatic valves on the radiators. This means I can leave the heating on for longer and maintain a lower but more even temperature at least some of the time. So my flat won’t be completely frozen.

Nevertheless, this doesn’t solve high humidity. I keep being told by the damp people that I should be opening windows and I keep telling them till I’m blue in the face that I have had the windows open 24/7 for six months of the year and the flat still smelt stale and damp. I have three external walls and windows on opposite sides and YET, NO AIRFLOW SEEMS TO BE HAPPENING!!! In the winter, they tell me I also need to leave a crack open 24/7. This to me defies all logic. Why is the world building completely airtight and insulated homes nowadays if not to ensure heat doesn’t escape via drafts. And my home is not airtight anyway because it’s old and has vents too. Regardless, opening the windows doesn’t solve high humidity and instead it adds to it by reducing temperature inside my home and thus increasing relative humidity (cold air is able to hold less moisture and so more will land on cold surfaces and mould will grow). They tell me airing in the morning and evening is not enough but how else am I supposed to run my dehumidifier and reduce humidity and thus mould if not when the windows are shut?? I will also add that I have mould mites in the flat and the building smells damp when you approach it from the street.

The only solution available to me is positive input ventilation at a cost of £1200. It’s a ventilation unit that sits in the loft and pushes fresh air into the flat reducing humidity and damp. Has fantastic reviews but at the cost, it’s a giant risk if it doesn’t work. I am at my wits end and don’t know what to do. Flat stink, mould grows yet no cause can be found.

I have recently had yet another damp survey and no one can find a reason for high humidity. I had damp in the kitchen wall (to a point where the metal around the window was showing through) which was fixed by the management company after much arguing. They tried to blame it on condensation when it was coming in from the outside. Allegedly they fixed whatever it was outside but I noticed the wall is peeling all over again and I am very worried. The surveyor said the wall is soaked but apparently that's normal in a building of this construction..?? This wall is facing the sea (about 2 min walk) but the wall next to it (in my living room) does not have this problem so it cannot be that. I have no mould growing on any walls. My neighbours don't have the same problem. I have literally no idea what else to do and where else to turn. It's not a simple case of temperature and airing because the problem persists in the summer. Without me running the dehum all the time, humidity rises above 70%. With all my battles, I fight to keep it below 60%.

Rural_Puppy

Insulation insulation insulation. You need to keep the heat in to prevent cold air condensing on surfaces and forming moisture. Why can't you insulate your walls? I assume you have checked there is no water getting in anywhere and the dampness is being caused by moisture inside. Might try the Energy Saving Trust. See if they can do an energy audit on your home. Might be able to suggest possible solutions and maybe some sources of funding. Best of luck.

agylk

Hi. I could only do internal wall insulation, which price wise is of course completely impossible. I don't have a cavity to insulate.
The issue is that the problem exists in the summer when it's warm and all the windows are open so temp doesn't explain the problem.
I tried them, they offered no help other than what I already know. No funding available for me.

shortcrust

Sounds to me like somehow, somewhere you’ve got water getting in. I bet something is cracked, or leaking, or overflowing.

My basement was really damp when I moved in and I thought it was just one of those things. A year later a leak in the water main nearby was found and fixed. Suddenly no more damp.

vw100

I think the single skin walls are the problem here. Need to get those walls water tights and then insulated on the inside, with insulated plasterboard. But the work needs to be thought out. Might be best to put a DPM and then battened and then insulated leaving air gap.

The place may be saturated with damp/mould and so if the above works are done it will take some time for the smells and the problem to resolve. Checking under the floor is also worthwhile if applicable, and removing any debris if any as this sort of stuff can also put a musky damp smell into a place.

A heating and central venting system will not be a wise move until the main problem is taken care off otherwise you will need potentially both running constantly in order to notice a difference, wasting lots of cash in the process.

tacpot12

Positive Input Ventilation systems need not be that expensive to install if you do the work yourself. You only need an electrician to run a supply to where the fan is situated. There is not so much risk as they definitely work.

However, your situation does sound unusual. What happens to the humidity levels when you are not at home? (Normally humidity in houses comes from the humans - no humans, no humidity.)

If the house gets damp when you are not there, then you have water coming into the property somewhere. You need to find out where, and stop it.

Insulation and a Positive Input Ventilation system will address the issue, if the source of the moisture is just the human habitation. It can't solve the problem if the is a fault in the building.

You will need to ventilate in winter. The world is building completely airtight and insulated homes nowadays to ensure heat doesn’t escape via drafts BUT these homes have a heat exchanger system so that they receive lots of fresh air into the building and expel all the moist air, while transferring the heat from the exhausted air to the incoming fresh air so that the home remains warm. However these systems are more expensive than PIV. A PIV with a thermostatically operated heater is the next best thing. You need the heater to make sure the air you are introducing is not cold air. PIVs don't need big heaters, because the airflow through them is relatively low. They work by being switched on all the time, and moving moisture out of the home constantly.

Opening the windows won’t solve high humidity on its own because you don't have a positive input ventilation to push the moist air out of the property. Homes tend to have slight negative pressure so this just keeps the moist air in.

The fact your neighbour doesn't have the problem tells you that it is either you (showering, drying inside etc.) or that your property has a problem that theirs does not.

agylk

Thank you all for replies. Let me try and respond to all the points.
Some of my neighbours have some slight issues (because it's an old 1900 house) but nothing like what I have. No one's flat stinks.

The management company keep saying if there was water coming in, there would be signs (leaks) on the walls, which there are none. The kitchen wall is soaked like I explained but I don't understand what the surveyor meant by all walls in a building like this will be soaked (I keep pushing for answers from management but they aren't all that helpful)... apparently that's normal? The render was fixed just before I bought the flat in 2017 so they keep saying there is no water coming in from outside. Apparently they just fixed the gutters and added cowls ( cowls?? can't remember the name?) to air bricks or somewhere to stop water spraying in... They say lining the walls with some special waterproof liner would stop water coming in through the pours bricks. My neighbours did not line their entire flats (some had small sections done where they had actual damp on the walls, which i don't have) and they do not have this problem.


I am absolutely and 100% certain it is not me producing this moisture. I'm not even home most fo the day. Sometimes humidity rises when I'm not there but not always. If I don't leave a small crack in the windows when I leave, I leave the dehumidifier on.

The PIV costs £1200 from envirovent and heats the air to 10C. Can be set to more but that would significantly increase running costs from something like £25 a year to £250 a year.

I cannot do internal wall insulation as it would cost thousands and thousands.... I cannot do any work myself and things are tricky as I'm managing a chronic illness on top so just trying to get to work is hard enough. Any works on top are not possible.

I've had several damp people come in the last two years and absolutely no one knows what the problem is. All I ever get is the same old advice and I keep saying all I'm blue in the face that I do absolutely everything within my power to improve the situation and nothing whatsoever works.

Shall I rip the carpet off and check underneath? Sorry for all the questions but I'm not very DIY apt

I honestly don't know where else to look for that water ingress... if no one else can find it, what hope have I got....

Is it possible that the design of the flat makes proper airflow impossible too? In which case a PIV would really help...? In the summer, with all the windows open non stop humidity rises to 70%. At present I'm battling to keep it under 60%. I have lived in so many homes and have never, ever had a problem like this in my entire life.

agylk

P.S I am on the first floor so don't have rising damp. The building does not have DPC and management say they won't do it as it's beyond their remit

Blackpool_Saver

chronic illness? Never ending damp, move out

shortcrust

I think yes, I’d be pulling things up and looking at every possible source where water could be coming from. Under baths and showers, kitchen sink etc. Look really carefully at walls and windows. I striped some wallpaper recently and uncovered a big damp patch on an internal wall caused by a problem with a windowsill. I’d never have known it was there. The same when I removed some of the original plaster in one room. Very damp underneath, again because of a windowsill, and again, I’d never noticed it until then. I’d want to be 100% sure there wasn’t a leak somewhere before I spent a penny on any other solution.

It really does sound like you’ve more moisture than can be accounted for. It can nudge 70% in my house when it mild and humid outside, but it can also be in the 40s when it’s a cold and/or dry day. And that’s without the windows open. We’ve had a lot of damp days this year but even with a prolonged period my house never smells damp.

Rural_Puppy

You mention you are on the first floor. What is above you?