Anyone else stuck, willing buyer,but bank wont lend due to article 14 / highrise?

carrotland

Who else has found themselves in an untenable situation ,with a willing buyer, passes valuation, everything is going well, until the surveyor asks for:
" The Building Owner/its agent, as the 'responsible person' under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, should provide a statement post-dating 1 Jan 2019, from a suitably qualified professional to confirm the building meets the requirements of current guidance from MHCLG (Advice Notes 14 & 18)."

Our management agent thankfully were proactive soon after Grenfell and engaged the services of a company to come in and do the risk assessment surveys etc, so at least were are not in the position some are where due to massive queues, peoples management agents are having to wait 6-12 mths in order to even get someone to come out.

Internal firestopping works were completed, and then the external survey identified some things that need attention on the outside of the building (rendered concrete with an insulating foam layer) to fix areas where flues have been put through and some other stuff, however, even when it is all done, the building never will be able to be signed off as article 14 compliant, as it was built to 2002 regs!
The Fire risk company said unless the building was built in the last 6 mths, none of them will meet current regs.

Ad the banks have stopped lending, and millions are now stuck.
It is like an eternal hades!
Last time we put it on the market and got a buyer, the Lehman bros crash happened a few days later and our buyer had to pull out as he worked for one of the banks that went down, so was out of a job.
It seems we are pipped at the post every time, and i am so tired of it!
We need to sell, and there's no end or solution in sight for this palava caused by ill throughout roll out of these advice notes.
I just thought there might be others out there that might be in the same position and want to commiserate.

Slithery

Find a cash buyer.

carrotland

Where?
They'll want it cheap then, and then there'll be no point bothering to sell it, as we're selling to buy another place.

diggingdude

Become a BTL landlord? It's crazy to think that people can't buy these houses or sell them as may not be safe but those who live in them or are looking to rent can just go ahead.

carrotland

We already have been renting it out, but we want to sell and move on now.we've owned it almost 2 decades,and I don't want to be a landlord.
The building is safe- it doesn't even have cladding, and it's been thoroughly surveyed by the ire company, but no one wants to issue these certificates, and have it as a liability on their insurance.
The fact is, millions of other owners are now caught in this same position, due to ill thought out, reactionary advice notes that have crippled the market.
The has been 3 fires at our development over 17 years.
I have pics of one episode where the interior of the flat burnt out, but it did not spread anywhere and all there was to show on the exterior render concrete was some smoke discolouration.

GDB2222

carrotland wrote: »

We already have been renting it out, but we want to sell and move on now.we've owned it almost 2 decades,and I don't want to be a landlord.
The building is safe- it doesn't even have cladding, and it's been thoroughly surveyed by the ire company, but no one wants to issue these certificates, and have it as a liability on their insurance.
The fact is, millions of other owners are now caught in this same position, due to ill thought out, reactionary advice notes that have crippled the market.
The has been 3 fires at our development over 17 years.
I have pics of one episode where the interior of the flat burnt out, but it did not spread anywhere and all there was to show on the exterior render concrete was some smoke discolouration.

You say elsewhere that it’s rendered concrete with insulating foam, but you say here that there’s no cladding. Can you explain, please?

I do sympathise with your predicament, but you maybe have to hang on a bit longer, I’m afraid. I wouldn’t want to buy your flat at full price, as I’d worry that the buyer might get an enormous bill for further improvement works. You say that’s unlikely, but it’s impossible to be sure, and there’s no reason for a buyer to take that risk without a financial incentive. Note that I’m not saying the block is unsafe, just that it may get caught up in the general hysteria.

carrotland

It doesn't have ACM cladding on it.
It has concrete render and the insulating foam system that is even still put on homes under the Green deals now by the Govt.
The actual report says:
A Fire Risk Assessment has been conducted in accordance with the Regulatory Reform Fire Safety Order 2005 and the Estate is well managed by xxxxxxx with a 24-hour concierge
xxxxx has two different types of exterior wall systems; one being brick the other being a cement render system over Expanded Polystyrene Foam (EPS) insulation. The cement render fascia covers the majority of the eight residential buildings.
It was highlighted within the letter that the fascia system conformed to building regulations at the time of installation and was signed as compliant by Building Control.

That aside, I wasn't here to argue with anyone about what buildings have what- only to talk to other buyers stuck in the same position, as it helps to be able to let off steam with others in the same predicament that understand what it's like.
Fortunately our developer has paid for all of the internal firestopping works.

rachel230

Unfortunately you are in a very difficult situation and far from alone. There was a meeting in Manchester (think it was Manchester!) where both Leasehold Knowledge Partnership and the National Leasehold Campaign both attended as they support those affected by the issue. I would join these groups for shared support and information.
Here is one article posted on their site.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50375522

rachel230

https://www.leaseholdknowledge.com/cladding-crisis-how-worse-can-it-get

carrotland

Well, we send the specialist report to the mortgage company, and they took over a weeks to look over it, but have now come back and instructed the survey to go ahead, so none of us exactly knows what that means, but surely it is promising?
Initially, they halted a valuation going ahead as Esurv had valued flats in our building previously at £0 valuation, so the fact that they have now given the go ahead for the valuation to happen, hopefully is progress!
Fingers crossed!

AdrianC

carrotland wrote: »

Who else has found themselves in an untenable situation ,with a willing buyer, passes valuation, everything is going well, until the surveyor asks for:
" The Building Owner/its agent, as the 'responsible person' under the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, should provide a statement post-dating 1 Jan 2019, from a suitably qualified professional to confirm the building meets the requirements of current guidance from MHCLG (Advice Notes 14 & 18)."

OK - that's not saying "Won't lend". That's saying "Before we lend, show us the paperwork."

Our management agent thankfully were proactive soon after Grenfell and engaged the services of a company to come in and do the risk assessment surveys etc, so at least were are not in the position some are where due to massive queues, peoples management agents are having to wait 6-12 mths in order to even get someone to come out.

So they have the paperwork. The solicitors get it all organised, the lender's happy, everybody's happy...

...the external survey identified some things that need attention on the outside of the building (rendered concrete with an insulating foam layer) to fix areas where flues have been put through and some other stuff, however, even when it is all done, the building never will be able to be signed off as article 14 compliant, as it was built to 2002 regs!

And there's the issue...

The Fire risk company said unless the building was built in the last 6 mths, none of them will meet current regs.

An old building cannot and will not meet the modern regs. They never do, not just fire regs, but any kind of BR change. And that's not really any surprise here, given how heavily they've been revised since the horrors of Grenfell two and a half years ago, and everything that came out into the open in the aftermath.

You can't really blame lenders for being cautious, can you? And that's what it comes down to. Lenders are simply being cautious. They don't want to be saddled with repossessed unsaleable death-trap flats on their books.

But... The lenders will soon have no choice but to be a bit more realistic, and start to take account of mods that have been made to existing buildings. Short term, it's a right PITA - yes. You are stuck for the time being. Still, it's not like it's your main home that you can't continue to live in. It's a business asset - albeit a substantial one - no more.

Last time we put it on the market and got a buyer, the Lehman bros crash happened a few days later

TBF, that was 12 years ago, 9 years before Grenfell.

carrotland wrote: »

Well, we send the specialist report to the mortgage company, and they took over a weeks to look over it, but have now come back and instructed the survey to go ahead, so none of us exactly knows what that means, but surely it is promising?
Initially, they halted a valuation going ahead as Esurv had valued flats in our building previously at £0 valuation, so the fact that they have now given the go ahead for the valuation to happen, hopefully is progress!
Fingers crossed!

And that does indeed sound like they're starting to be more realistic about it. Good luck.