Yes, another PIP story..

allaction

Hi all,

Seems amazing the amount of horror stories attributed to PIP.

I had my assessment a few weeks
Ago and got my rejection letter back within days so looks pretty cut and dried.

I have suffered anxiety and depression since 1998 and had drs notes and medical history to prove that. I paid to see a private psychiatrist in 2008 and enclosed the diagnosis letter which was scanned at my assessment.

I currently do not take medication as I have been on three different anti depressants and each time the side effects outweighed the gain. I told the assessor this.

When I first sat down in the waiting room I had had to use the bathroom twice as my anxiety causes severe bowel issues.

I asked the assessor what her medical background when I first went into the room as I wanted to gage their knowledge of mental health. They said they were a nurse but that personally they had mental health issues, had had a breakdown and previously had had medication and counselling. This made me feel far calmer that someone would understand me.

As we conducted the interview (one hour thirty minutes) they highlighted similarities in their symptoms
To mine.

“Do you ever feel suicidal”
“ not all the time but I used to want to be killed so I hadn’t taken my life”
“I used to want something to drop on me and seriously injure me”!

Sweet Jesus!

Many similar responses as part of the conversation.

I don’t cook and can’t go into crowded places alone, I’ve not left the house for six months on my own and take a relative with a blue badge if I go out as my fear of being far from bathrooms is immense. My mum was outside but I don’t like talking in front of her as it depresses her the reality of my situation. Like I suspect many people
with anxiety I put a false front on appearing cheerful when inside I’m churning which gives a false sense of how I’m looking.

I took pictures of my pill pot on cutlery I use as I’ve diabetes so use adaptive cutlery to help with grip. I said my wife reminds me to eat and take medication, consequences of both if I’m not concentrating is severe.

I strangely scored zero points on anything!

How is that possible?

I’ve not taken medication for several years as have learned that what I can do and can’t is for me better than the medication I was on. It seems this has gone against me on the assessment although my understanding was you don’t need a diagnosis or even medication to qualify! Review notes I didn’t appear in any way anxious or words to that effect! What’s the point bin having a diagnosis off a qualified psychiatrist highlighting my fear of going out and constant bad stomach only to have an hour plus assessment disagree with a guy who is a professor at a prestigious university and nationally acclaimed!
Full disclosure on the day I had sciatica so couldn’t carry out all the tasks on the physical element but I explained I’d slept in the spare room for a week as I can’t sleep and before something like this I definitely can’t. I said that on most days I can do those tasks and hadn’t put on my notes anything relating to a back issue.

Two points

I’ve been advised appealing a zero point assessment is very hard if not impossible.

Two, the assessor aren’t playing a good cop bad cop routine on you are they with regards to feeding you information to get your guard down? I was much put at ease by their apparent candour but now I’m doubting wether it was real or not!

calcotti

allaction wrote: »

I’ve been advised appealing a zero point assessment is very hard if not impossible.

Don’t be put off by zero points if you consider you have a case. There are claimants who get zero points initially who go on to get enhanced awards at appeal.

You need first to ask the DWP for a Mandatory Reconsideration. In the majority of cases this does not result in any change (although I have heard that there has been some improvement recently). After that you can appeal to the tribunal service - unfortunately waiting times are long but three quarters of appeals are successful.

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/benefits-introduction/problems-with-benefits-and-tax-credits/challenging-a-benefit-decision/
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/guides/how-win-pip-appeal

You need to make sure you understand the PIP descriptors and where you think you qualify for points. https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/benefits/sick-or-disabled-people-and-carers/pip/appeals/how-decisions-are-made/

allaction

Thanks

I’m eligible to re apply early next year so may go with a citizens advice rep rather than a lengthy appeal..

Obviously I’d lose this six months. It took a lot out of me to submit and carry on first time though so not sure what to do.

Alice_Holt

allaction wrote: »

I had my assessment a few weeks ago and got my rejection letter back within days so looks pretty cut and dried...I’ve been advised appealing a zero point assessment is very hard if not impossible.

Not so.

As calcotti says it is perfectly possible to go from zero points to an enhanced rate at tribunal.
At my Citizens Advice it's a regular occurrence (so flawed are some assessments and DWP decisions) - particularly when mental health, depression, and anxiety are the main disabling conditions.

Here is the MR form you need to start the process:
https://www.gov.uk/mandatory-reconsideration/how-to-ask-for-mandatory-reconsideration
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/challenge-a-decision-made-by-the-department-for-work-and-pensions-dwp

You are likely to find the DWP do not change their decision when you ask them to look at the decision, so will need to appeal to the Tribunal Service.
https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/appeal-a-social-security-benefits-decision-form-sscs1
(Attach a copy of your MRN)

Was this your first application, or did you have a previous award (or DLA)?

The How to win a PIP appeal guide, calcotti has linked to, is excellent, and I would recommend you read it carefully.
This is useful for the MR:
https://www.advicenow.org.uk/pip-tool

I would suggest you see if your local advice charity / CAB can help you with the appeal.

In addition to the links provided by calcotti, this site has an excellent (and detailed) appeal guide:
https://www.benefitsandwork.co.uk/personal-independence-payment-pip
Membership costs c.£20 pa - but IMO their guides are very helpful (particularly if your local advice charity doesn't have a caseworker who can help you).

This is a useful source:
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/831253/PIP-assessment-guide-part-2-the_assessment-criteria.pdf

I would urge you to MR / appeal as that decision is clearly wrong.

Current PIP success rates at appeal are around 74% ish. At our CAB we have around 95% plus success rate in getting DWP decisions overturned at tribunal.
Do read this:
https://www.buzzfeed.com/emilydugan/most-dwp-benefits-cases-which-reach-court-are-based-on-bad

So get that MR done!

Alice_Holt

allaction wrote: »

Thanks

I’m eligible to re apply early next year so may go with a citizens advice rep rather than a lengthy appeal..

Obviously I’d lose this six months. It took a lot out of me to submit and carry on first time though so not sure what to do.

You can do both. It's not either / or.

Appeal it. From your OP the decision clearly seems incorrect.
(The difficultly with reapplying is that the DWP may just give you same decision again).

calcotti

allaction wrote: »

Thanks.I’m eligible to re apply early next year .

Not sure what you mean by this. There is no waiting period before you can reapply.

TELLIT01

allaction wrote: »

Thanks

I’m eligible to re apply early next year so may go with a citizens advice rep rather than a lengthy appeal..

Obviously I’d lose this six months. It took a lot out of me to submit and carry on first time though so not sure what to do.

I understand how difficult it must be, but by not appealing now and re-applying later you are just putting off the inevitable. It's likely that the result next time will be similar to this, although by no means certain that the result will be the same. Assuming it is, you will have to face the appeal process then.

poppy12345

allaction wrote: »

Thanks

I’m eligible to re apply early next year so may go with a citizens advice rep rather than a lengthy appeal..

Obviously I’d lose this six months. It took a lot out of me to submit and carry on first time though so not sure what to do.

I urge you to request the MR followed by Tribunal. Re-applying using the same evidence you just used will very likely see another refusal. Also, i'm not sure why you were told you can re-apply next year because there's no timescales to when you can reapply, you can do this straight away but as advised, i wouldn't take that route.


Please read the PIP assessment link posted by Alice above and it will give you more of an understanding of the PIP descriptors and what they mean.

calcotti

TELLIT01 wrote: »

It's likely that the result next time will be similar to this, although by no means certain that the result will be the same.

Lack of consistency in DWP decision making is part of the problem so although a similar outcome is certainly possible a different outcome could also result simply by having a different assessor. However if a strong case can be made with a new claim the same case can be put at MR so I see no point in waiting. Make the MR, I am aware of recent revised decisions at MR stage - although having to go to appeal remains more likely.

poppy12345

Yes, you can re-apply but this only complicates the process because any new decision made on a new claim will overrule the decision made by Tribunal.

Alice_Holt

poppy12345 wrote: »

Yes, you can re-apply but this only complicates the process because any new decision made on a new claim will overrule the decision made by Tribunal.

Yes, good point.
If the new application gets a lesser award than that granted by the tribunal -
Then the claimant can be reliant on the DWP accepting the length of the award recommended by the tribunal panel, and setting aside the new assessment on a new MR application.

Else the tribunal's award stands for just a few months, and the claimant is back to another appeal to get a correct award.