Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Grandad2b

Go on then - how long to do a full recharge in port?
Is this going to be an option for ro-ro ferries across the (English) channel or would that mean off loading the spent battery packs and loading fully charged?

Martyn1981

Grandad2b said:

Go on then - how long to do a full recharge in port?
Is this going to be an option for ro-ro ferries across the (English) channel or would that mean off loading the spent battery packs and loading fully charged?

Hiya, found some info for you.

Another article with more detail on the story:

Hurtigruten Norway Plans Electric Cruise Ship With Sails & Solar Panels

Last year it announced its “Sea Zero” initiative. In collaboration with 12 maritime partners and SINTEF — a Norwegian research institute — Hurtigruten has been exploring technological solutions that could help to achieve emission-free marine travel. The new zero-emissions ship will run mostly on 60 WM megawatt batteries that can be charged in port with clean energy from Norway’s abundant supply of hydroelectric power. The batteries will have a range of 300 to 350 nautical miles, meaning that during an 11-day round trip, the ship will need to charge about 8 times.

Looks like a typo about the battery, as the other article suggests a number of 60MWh batteries.

So 8 recharges. Looked at the company's site and found this route, which I suspect matches that described in the article:

Classic Roundtrip Voyage from Bergen

• Discover our full scenic route with 34 ports visited twice, northbound and southbound, allowing you to really get to know the heart and soul of Norway’s coastline

Regarding battery packs, I know that some coastal BEV container carriers are looking at exactly that idea, where battery packs are loaded and unloaded, when the cargo is. I'm not sure if this one has swappable batts, but it's a smaller, near shore, short route BEV container ship, designed to displace road trucks, and it's also crewless!

Crewless cargo: the world’s first autonomous electric cargo ship

Departing for its maiden voyage on Thursday 18 November, the Yara Birkeland set sail on her first demo trip, sailing along the Norwegian coast from Horten to Oslo. Estimated to cut 1,000 tonnes of CO2 and replace 40,000 trips carried out by diesel trucks per year, Yara is optimistic that commercial operations for the vessel will take place within the next few years. 

The ship is powered by battery powered technology – provided by Swiss Lithium-ion cells and energy storage solutions company, LeClanchè – providing the ship with a capacity close to 7MWh. This is accompanied by sensor technology that provides the vessel with situational awareness.

For ferries, smaller routes are already going electric, here's one from a couple of years ago, that covers a relatively short 10km route:

World’s largest electric ferry launches in Norway

The Bastø Electric is 139.2-metre-long and 21-metre-wide and was built by the Turkish Sefine Shipyard and has room for 600 passengers and 200 cars or 24 trucks. The battery and fast-charging systems for all three ferries are supplied by Siemens Energy from the battery factory in Trondheim. Bastø Electric uses batteries with a capacity of 4.3 MWh. The fast-charging system has a capacity of 9 MW, according to the shipping company. When docking, the ferry is always “charged at lightning speed”.

The approximately ten-kilometre-long ferry route between Moss and Horten is Norway’s busiest ferry connection, according to Bastø Fosen. Annually, 3.8 million passengers and 1.8 million vehicles are transported on this route. “During 2022, emissions on this ferry route will be reduced by 75 per cent,” the shipping company says. Two other ferries are also to be converted from diesel to electric operation shortly. According to the company, each ferry docks and departs 20 to 24 times a day. The crossing takes around 30 minutes.

But other ferries travelling longer distances are being built. Here's an article on one that will cover about 5x the Dover/Calais crossing distance, with recharges in port. So I assume there is no problem scaling up to large ro-ro size?

The world’s largest electric ferry can take you and your closest 2000 friends across the ocean

Incat Tasmania, an Australian manufacturer of high-speed craft (HSC) ferries, is ready to deliver the 148-meter (485.5 feet) Utility Ro-Pax ferry, which will be the world’s largest electric ferry.

Designed by Revolution Design and built by Incat, the ferry is powered by two electric motors (5 – 9.6 MW) beneath the hull. The vessel can carry up to 2,100 passengers and 226 vehicles at up to 25 knots for a max range of 100 n.m.

I used to chat on the Navitron forum, but it closed a few years ago. One of the members actually worked on a Scottish ferry and detailed it's conversion to BEV, I'd guess this was over 5yrs ago, but can't recall its size, nor route length.



Hope this helps. Fun to look into it, and apears to be an area that will transition quite fast.

Martyn1981

I appreciate that battery breakthroughs and advances come along almost every day, but here we have a big BEV manufacturer with improvements (a few years away).

Volkswagen Claims New Dry Battery Process Will Save Hundreds Of Dollars Per Car

We’ve said it many times, many ways. Battery technology is not a static thing. Hundreds of companies and laboratories around the world — including Oak Ridge National Laboratory — are searching high and low for the next battery technology that will lead to less expensive electric cars with longer range and faster charging. On that front, Volkswagen says it has come up with a new dry coating process that will allow it to lower the price of its electric cars by several hundred dollars.

According to Der Spiegel (paywall), Volkswagen intends to bring a new dry coating process for electric car batteries into large-scale production. Dry coating reduces energy consumption in the production of battery cells by 30%, which could lower the cost of electric cars by several hundred euros per vehicle.

According to Wolf, Volkswagen has been researching the new dry coating process with partners since 2020, and expects to use it in the production of millions of battery cells by the beginning of 2027. To date, the company has invested approximately €40 million into researching the dry coating technology.

michaels

Martyn1981 said:

I appreciate that battery breakthroughs and advances come along almost every day, but here we have a big BEV manufacturer with improvements (a few years away).

Volkswagen Claims New Dry Battery Process Will Save Hundreds Of Dollars Per Car

We’ve said it many times, many ways. Battery technology is not a static thing. Hundreds of companies and laboratories around the world — including Oak Ridge National Laboratory — are searching high and low for the next battery technology that will lead to less expensive electric cars with longer range and faster charging. On that front, Volkswagen says it has come up with a new dry coating process that will allow it to lower the price of its electric cars by several hundred dollars.

According to Der Spiegel (paywall), Volkswagen intends to bring a new dry coating process for electric car batteries into large-scale production. Dry coating reduces energy consumption in the production of battery cells by 30%, which could lower the cost of electric cars by several hundred euros per vehicle.

According to Wolf, Volkswagen has been researching the new dry coating process with partners since 2020, and expects to use it in the production of millions of battery cells by the beginning of 2027. To date, the company has invested approximately €40 million into researching the dry coating technology.

Be funny if VW get this working whilst Tesla who announced it at their (in) famous battery day still seem to be struggling with it.

However perhaps we should all be looking at silicon batteries as possibly the next big thing that may throw the economics on to its head, certainly not great for all those lithium mine projects.

Martyn1981

More evidence that Ford is taking the transition seriously, with an incredibly candid chat.

Great bit just before bthe 25min mark to do with software - Jim Farley explains to Robert Llewellyn that by farming out components and getting companies to compete against each other, they probably saved $500 per car. But, that means that they have a huge number of components with different software. So engine module, seat module ... he says 150 different modules. And not only do they not talk to each other, but Ford needs to contact the companies for changes as it's their IP. He even describes their software system as being crazy.

So they have to go in house, but explains that legacy auto has never written software like this, so they have to learn, and recruit the necessary people. Ouch!

The Man Behind The Best-Selling Truck In 50 Years - Ford CEO Jim Farley | The Fully Charged Podcast

shinytop

Martyn1981 said:

More evidence that Ford is taking the transition seriously, with an incredibly candid chat.

Great bit just before bthe 25min mark to do with software - Jim Farley explains to Robert Llewellyn that by farming out components and getting companies to compete against each other, they probably saved $500 per car. But, that means that they have a huge number of components with different software. So engine module, seat module ... he says 150 different modules. And not only do they not talk to each other, but Ford needs to contact the companies for changes as it's their IP. He even describes their software system as being crazy.

So they have to go in house, but explains that legacy auto has never written software like this, so they have to learn, and recruit the necessary people. Ouch!

The Man Behind The Best-Selling Truck In 50 Years - Ford CEO Jim Farley | The Fully Charged Podcast

Engine module I get, but wouldn't they save more money by not having as many modules like seat modules, window modules,  glove compartment modules, windscreen wiper blade modules, etc.? 

JKenH

michaels said:

Martyn1981 said:

I appreciate that battery breakthroughs and advances come along almost every day, but here we have a big BEV manufacturer with improvements (a few years away).

Volkswagen Claims New Dry Battery Process Will Save Hundreds Of Dollars Per Car

We’ve said it many times, many ways. Battery technology is not a static thing. Hundreds of companies and laboratories around the world — including Oak Ridge National Laboratory — are searching high and low for the next battery technology that will lead to less expensive electric cars with longer range and faster charging. On that front, Volkswagen says it has come up with a new dry coating process that will allow it to lower the price of its electric cars by several hundred dollars.

According to Der Spiegel (paywall), Volkswagen intends to bring a new dry coating process for electric car batteries into large-scale production. Dry coating reduces energy consumption in the production of battery cells by 30%, which could lower the cost of electric cars by several hundred euros per vehicle.

According to Wolf, Volkswagen has been researching the new dry coating process with partners since 2020, and expects to use it in the production of millions of battery cells by the beginning of 2027. To date, the company has invested approximately €40 million into researching the dry coating technology.

Be funny if VW get this working whilst Tesla who announced it at their (in) famous battery day still seem to be struggling with it.

However perhaps we should all be looking at silicon batteries as possibly the next big thing that may throw the economics on to its head, certainly not great for all those lithium mine projects.

Technology is moving on at an ever increasing rate. Just as digital cameras largely killed off celluloid, smartphones have done the same for mass market digital cameras. Same with LPs - CDs - MP3 players-music streaming. What next - implants?

10 years ago I never foresaw the demise of ICE vehicles and today’s car savvy generation can’t conceive that EVs will almost certainly have an even shorter life. As for batteries I would be extremely surprised if the current lithium based technology will last another 10 years. The only thing we can say about the future is that it won’t be anything like we expect it to be.

JKenH

I have to say I am surprised at the developer’s comments about battery life. Presumably the battery tech differs from that used in EVs.

Tecnam and Rolls-Royce Scrap P-Volt Electric Aircraft

After three years of research and development work, Tecnam said that currently available batteries would not be viable for operators due mainly to the need to frequently replace them. “The proliferation of aircraft with 'new' batteries would lead to unrealistic mission profiles that would quickly degrade after a few weeks of operation, making the all-electric passenger aircraft a mere 'green transition flagship’ rather than a real player in the decarbonization of aviation,” Tecnam said. “Taking into account the most optimistic projections of slow charge cycles and the possible limitation of the maximum charge level per cycle, the real storage capacity would fall below 170 Wh/kg and only a few hundred flights would drive operators to replace the entire storage unit, with a dramatic increase in direct operating costs due to the reserves for battery replacement prices.”

https://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/advanced-air-mobility/2023-06-14/tecnam-and-rolls-royce-scrap-p-volt-electric-aircraft

Additional article with more information. I was struggling with the formatting to copy this across easily but it seems the more comprehensive report.
https://www.flightglobal.com/airframers/tecnam-pauses-p-volt-on-battery-concerns/153687.article

Edit: Is it the massive power demand on take off that causes the battery degradation rather than steady state cruising at altitude?

JKenH

Kia, Tesla, Volvo among winners in Auto Trader New Car of the Year Awards for 2023

In addition to the Kia EV6 taking this year’s most prestigious Award, other notable electric wins include the Best Car for Families category (Tesla Model Y), as well as Best Car for City Drivers (Nissan Leaf), Best Car for New Drivers (Renault Zoe), Most Loved Car (Hyundai IONIQ 5), and, highlighting just how reliable its charging infrastructure is, Tesla’s Model 3 won the award for Best Car for Long Distances.

https://www.am-online.com/news/supplier-news/2023/06/16/kia-tesla-volvo-among-winners-in-auto-trader-new-car-of-the-year-awards-for-2023

Martyn1981

Not exactly BEV news, but within the ballpark, and probably a look into the future.

Owners of the most polluting cars to pay double for parking across England

Owners of the most polluting cars may soon have to pay more to park as councils across England are expected to roll out new charges based on a vehicle’s CO2 emissions.

Lambeth is the latest council in London to introduce emissions-based parking fees, with similar charges now expected elsewhere in England. Owners of the most polluting cars can expect to pay more than twice as much as cleaner cars. There are now 26 different charges to park for an hour in Lambeth, depending on a car’s tax band and whether there is a diesel surcharge. The cost of a parking bay near Waterloo station in south London now ranges between £6.30 and £13.23 an hour, with payment made by an app.