Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

Grumpy_chap

CKhalvashi said:

Just to update on the charging situation for long distance travel.

We managed to get 891 miles, starting with a full battery, on 5 rapid charging stops (including a quick 18-68% 'splash and dash' in Germany). Total charging time about 3h, total journey time around 16 hours (with 2 drivers). If the charge time is too long for anyone, there is a Kona with a larger battery pack than my Ioniq available for not a lot more that doesn't suffer much of a loss in efficiency.

I'm willing to take a bet that in real driving conditions it wouldn't actually be any slower than a non-BEV, especially once having a coffee and toilet use are taken into account, plus the rapid chargers when using the Eurotunnel when it's necessary to wait around anyway.

Total cost each way was about €160, mainly on the Ionity network, which still works out at a fair amount less than the 20p/mile it would cost to use an equivalent petrol/diesel car. The €0,49/kWh charging point in Belgium we used (which is limited to 50kW) brought this cost down, as I couldn't see this availability in Germany at all.

Thanks for sharing and I am glad your trip went safely.

Martyn1981

CKhalvashi said:

Just to update on the charging situation for long distance travel.

We managed to get 891 miles, starting with a full battery, on 5 rapid charging stops (including a quick 18-68% 'splash and dash' in Germany). Total charging time about 3h, total journey time around 16 hours (with 2 drivers). If the charge time is too long for anyone, there is a Kona with a larger battery pack than my Ioniq available for not a lot more that doesn't suffer much of a loss in efficiency.

I'm willing to take a bet that in real driving conditions it wouldn't actually be any slower than a non-BEV, especially once having a coffee and toilet use are taken into account, plus the rapid chargers when using the Eurotunnel when it's necessary to wait around anyway.

Total cost each way was about €160, mainly on the Ionity network, which still works out at a fair amount less than the 20p/mile it would cost to use an equivalent petrol/diesel car. The €0,49/kWh charging point in Belgium we used (which is limited to 50kW) brought this cost down, as I couldn't see this availability in Germany at all.

Yep, got to second GC, really informative and great to know how it worked out.

What's the effective range of your IONIQ, ~180miles?

Can I ask what you were charging up to, 80%+? Or as the charge rate slowed? And running quite low, or just going with the flow depending on the availability/location of the chargers?

Just a thought, but with such an efficient, and relatively small battery, I suppose even a slow(ish) charge rate is still fast ..... so to speak?

Sorry for all the questions.

JKenH

CKhalvashi said:

Just to update on the charging situation for long distance travel.

We managed to get 891 miles, starting with a full battery, on 5 rapid charging stops (including a quick 18-68% 'splash and dash' in Germany). Total charging time about 3h, total journey time around 16 hours (with 2 drivers). If the charge time is too long for anyone, there is a Kona with a larger battery pack than my Ioniq available for not a lot more that doesn't suffer much of a loss in efficiency.

I'm willing to take a bet that in real driving conditions it wouldn't actually be any slower than a non-BEV, especially once having a coffee and toilet use are taken into account, plus the rapid chargers when using the Eurotunnel when it's necessary to wait around anyway.

Total cost each way was about €160, mainly on the Ionity network, which still works out at a fair amount less than the 20p/mile it would cost to use an equivalent petrol/diesel car. The €0,49/kWh charging point in Belgium we used (which is limited to 50kW) brought this cost down, as I couldn't see this availability in Germany at all.

I presume you meant €160 for the whole trip rather than each way. €160 over 891 miles works out at €0.18 (15.8p) per mile which is not a huge saving - it is the equivalent of about 42 mpg if petrol is £1.46/litre. If it was €160 each way a petrol car would need to do 21mpg or less to be more expensive. The 20p/mile you suggest, would for a petrol car, equate to 33mpg. The Ioniq is a Golf sized car (but perhaps a bit more aerodynamic) and a modern petrol Golf should be able to achieve 50mpg on a long distance drive. 

CKhalvashi

Martyn1981 said:

CKhalvashi said:

Just to update on the charging situation for long distance travel.

We managed to get 891 miles, starting with a full battery, on 5 rapid charging stops (including a quick 18-68% 'splash and dash' in Germany). Total charging time about 3h, total journey time around 16 hours (with 2 drivers). If the charge time is too long for anyone, there is a Kona with a larger battery pack than my Ioniq available for not a lot more that doesn't suffer much of a loss in efficiency.

I'm willing to take a bet that in real driving conditions it wouldn't actually be any slower than a non-BEV, especially once having a coffee and toilet use are taken into account, plus the rapid chargers when using the Eurotunnel when it's necessary to wait around anyway.

Total cost each way was about €160, mainly on the Ionity network, which still works out at a fair amount less than the 20p/mile it would cost to use an equivalent petrol/diesel car. The €0,49/kWh charging point in Belgium we used (which is limited to 50kW) brought this cost down, as I couldn't see this availability in Germany at all.

Yep, got to second GC, really informative and great to know how it worked out.

What's the effective range of your IONIQ, ~180miles?

Can I ask what you were charging up to, 80%+? Or as the charge rate slowed? And running quite low, or just going with the flow depending on the availability/location of the chargers?

Just a thought, but with such an efficient, and relatively small battery, I suppose even a slow(ish) charge rate is still fast ..... so to speak?

Sorry for all the questions.

You're fine

It will do 200mi if kept off the motorway and driven carefully. At 65-ish mph about 160mi real world.

Dynamic charging can be quite important. I've tried to get the battery as high as possible in general. Final destination was a village about 10mi from Wroclaw and from the last charge somewhere close to Dresden (to 91%) it showed 17mi left. This was carrying some heavy equipment (that was in transit) and 2 people with some heating as we were getting cold.

0-100% theoretically will take no longer than an hour on a 50kW charger, even including the slowing in charge rate as the battery fills.

JKenH said:

CKhalvashi said:

Just to update on the charging situation for long distance travel.

We managed to get 891 miles, starting with a full battery, on 5 rapid charging stops (including a quick 18-68% 'splash and dash' in Germany). Total charging time about 3h, total journey time around 16 hours (with 2 drivers). If the charge time is too long for anyone, there is a Kona with a larger battery pack than my Ioniq available for not a lot more that doesn't suffer much of a loss in efficiency.

I'm willing to take a bet that in real driving conditions it wouldn't actually be any slower than a non-BEV, especially once having a coffee and toilet use are taken into account, plus the rapid chargers when using the Eurotunnel when it's necessary to wait around anyway.

Total cost each way was about €160, mainly on the Ionity network, which still works out at a fair amount less than the 20p/mile it would cost to use an equivalent petrol/diesel car. The €0,49/kWh charging point in Belgium we used (which is limited to 50kW) brought this cost down, as I couldn't see this availability in Germany at all.

I presume you meant €160 for the whole trip rather than each way. €160 over 891 miles works out at €0.18 (15.8p) per mile which is not a huge saving - it is the equivalent of about 42 mpg if petrol is £1.46/litre. If it was €160 each way a petrol car would need to do 21mpg or less to be more expensive. The 20p/mile you suggest, would for a petrol car, equate to 33mpg. The Ioniq is a Golf sized car (but perhaps a bit more aerodynamic) and a modern petrol Golf should be able to achieve 50mpg on a long distance drive. 

I sadly don't. Most of the German rapid chargers are expensive to use which eats heavily into costs. If 1mi/8kWh were possible I'd be very happy but we're not yet at that stage.

Petrol prices in Germany are slightly higher than the UK. I work that out to be about the equivalent to 42mpg one way (900mi one way) on petrol or about 50mpg for a diesel. I will re-calculate that in a minute the cost savings as you may be correct that it's more expensive. I have used the 20p/mi 'rough guide' that the Yeti (2.0 diesel/DSG) has put into it as a baseline.

It's probably worth noting that the E250 diesel we drove afterwards averaged about 7.2l/100km (just under 40mpg with a quick head calculation) but on worse roads with a lower average speed.

JKenH

CKhalvashi said:

Martyn1981 said:

CKhalvashi said:

Just to update on the charging situation for long distance travel.

We managed to get 891 miles, starting with a full battery, on 5 rapid charging stops (including a quick 18-68% 'splash and dash' in Germany). Total charging time about 3h, total journey time around 16 hours (with 2 drivers). If the charge time is too long for anyone, there is a Kona with a larger battery pack than my Ioniq available for not a lot more that doesn't suffer much of a loss in efficiency.

I'm willing to take a bet that in real driving conditions it wouldn't actually be any slower than a non-BEV, especially once having a coffee and toilet use are taken into account, plus the rapid chargers when using the Eurotunnel when it's necessary to wait around anyway.

Total cost each way was about €160, mainly on the Ionity network, which still works out at a fair amount less than the 20p/mile it would cost to use an equivalent petrol/diesel car. The €0,49/kWh charging point in Belgium we used (which is limited to 50kW) brought this cost down, as I couldn't see this availability in Germany at all.

Yep, got to second GC, really informative and great to know how it worked out.

What's the effective range of your IONIQ, ~180miles?

Can I ask what you were charging up to, 80%+? Or as the charge rate slowed? And running quite low, or just going with the flow depending on the availability/location of the chargers?

Just a thought, but with such an efficient, and relatively small battery, I suppose even a slow(ish) charge rate is still fast ..... so to speak?

Sorry for all the questions.

You're fine

It will do 200mi if kept off the motorway and driven carefully. At 65-ish mph about 160mi real world.

Dynamic charging can be quite important. I've tried to get the battery as high as possible in general. Final destination was a village about 10mi from Wroclaw and from the last charge somewhere close to Dresden (to 91%) it showed 17mi left. This was carrying some heavy equipment (that was in transit) and 2 people with some heating as we were getting cold.

0-100% theoretically will take no longer than an hour on a 50kW charger, even including the slowing in charge rate as the battery fills.

JKenH said:

CKhalvashi said:

Just to update on the charging situation for long distance travel.

We managed to get 891 miles, starting with a full battery, on 5 rapid charging stops (including a quick 18-68% 'splash and dash' in Germany). Total charging time about 3h, total journey time around 16 hours (with 2 drivers). If the charge time is too long for anyone, there is a Kona with a larger battery pack than my Ioniq available for not a lot more that doesn't suffer much of a loss in efficiency.

I'm willing to take a bet that in real driving conditions it wouldn't actually be any slower than a non-BEV, especially once having a coffee and toilet use are taken into account, plus the rapid chargers when using the Eurotunnel when it's necessary to wait around anyway.

Total cost each way was about €160, mainly on the Ionity network, which still works out at a fair amount less than the 20p/mile it would cost to use an equivalent petrol/diesel car. The €0,49/kWh charging point in Belgium we used (which is limited to 50kW) brought this cost down, as I couldn't see this availability in Germany at all.

I presume you meant €160 for the whole trip rather than each way. €160 over 891 miles works out at €0.18 (15.8p) per mile which is not a huge saving - it is the equivalent of about 42 mpg if petrol is £1.46/litre. If it was €160 each way a petrol car would need to do 21mpg or less to be more expensive. The 20p/mile you suggest, would for a petrol car, equate to 33mpg. The Ioniq is a Golf sized car (but perhaps a bit more aerodynamic) and a modern petrol Golf should be able to achieve 50mpg on a long distance drive. 

I sadly don't. Most of the German rapid chargers are expensive to use which eats heavily into costs. If 1mi/8kWh were possible I'd be very happy but we're not yet at that stage.

Petrol prices in Germany are slightly higher than the UK. I work that out to be about the equivalent to 42mpg one way (900mi one way) on petrol or about 50mpg for a diesel. I will re-calculate that in a minute the cost savings as you may be correct that it's more expensive. I have used the 20p/mi 'rough guide' that the Yeti (2.0 diesel/DSG) has put into it as a baseline.

It's probably worth noting that the E250 diesel we drove afterwards averaged about 7.2l/100km (just under 40mpg with a quick head calculation) but on worse roads with a lower average speed.

I understand now. I had (mis)read it as the whole round trip being 891 miles rather than 891 miles each way. So yes, agreed, the cost was equivalent of about 42mpg in petrol. Thanks for clarifying.

Martyn1981

For those pondering actual range, in different conditions, I think that EV_Database offers excellent stats. However, the cold weather range is based on -10C, which is quite an extreme figure for the UK.

So, just watched this vid from What Car, where they did their winter range testing, and compared a collection of 12 BEV's in daytime temps of about 3-6C.

I won't bury the lede - at the lower end, cars managed about 30% less than their WLTP ratings, and at the upper end about 20% less. But that's not a drop of 30% to 20% of range due to cold weather, since those WLTP figures (like mpg) are at the most flattering end of potential.

Interestingly, to me, were the two most efficient cars, the Mini at 3.9m/kWh, and the Tesla TMY at 3.6m/kWh. So the Mini was about 10% more efficent than the TMY, which in turn was about 10% more efficient than the next group, at around 3.2m/kWh. If only the Mini cost a bit less, and had a larger battery, since it only managed 113 miles, with a battery size a half to a third of that of the others.

OMG for the I-Pace with 2.3m/kWh. [Note typo in the final chart for the Megane 18in, which should be 3.1 (not 2.1).]

Just for GC, the MG4 managed 196 miles, and a very respectful 3.2m/kWh.

Electric car winter ranges REVEALED! | What Car?

JKenH

Tesla Slashes Model S/X Prices Again, By Up To $10,000

The new pricing is as follows (as of March 6, 2023):

• Model S AWD: $89,990 (from $94,990);
• Model S Plaid: $109,990 (from $114,990);
• Model X AWD: $99,990 (from $109,990);
• Model X Plaid: $109,990 (from $119,990).

https://insideevs.com/news/655702/tesla-model-s-model-x-prices-lowered/

NigeWick

Martyn1981 said:

For those pondering actual range, in different conditions,

I think a minimum range should be given. My 64kWh Kona would do 200 miles at 70mph, 28f with heating & aircon on.

JKenH

BYD’s $24.2 billion market rout shows fallout of Tesla price war in China

HONG KONG – A price war among electric vehicle (EV) makers in China is taking a toll on even the most resilient players, as evidenced by BYD’s staggering US$18 billion (S$24.2 billion) drop in the past month.

The United States-listed shares of the manufacturer that is backed by investment guru Warren Buffett have declined 14 per cent since Feb 1, underperforming rival Tesla, which advanced 9 per cent during the period. In comparison, a gauge of global EV makers fell 9 per cent. 

Traders are growing wary about BYD’s prospects after the EV maker’s dealers slashed prices of some models to boost sales. The change in sentiment underscores the wave of caution that is sweeping the industry following moves by Nio and XPeng to follow Tesla’s lead in lowering prices as demand slows.

https://www.straitstimes.com/business/byd-s-24-billion-market-rout-shows-fallout-of-tesla-price-war-in-china

Martyn1981

NigeWick said:

Martyn1981 said:

For those pondering actual range, in different conditions,

I think a minimum range should be given. My 64kWh Kona would do 200 miles at 70mph, 28f with heating & aircon on.

Yep, EV-Database suggests 175 miles in cold weather highway driving, which at -10C (10f), would seem reasonable compared to your 200 estimate, I think. Does that sound reasonable?