Battery Electric Vehicle News / Enjoying the Transportation Revolution

2nd_time_buyer

Grumpy_chap said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

I am sure this has been covered elsewhere but how far do you think we are away from a budget BEV around the £10k mark? Will we ever get there? Or has the price of the cheapest car effectively doubled permanently.

I am thinking a little city runaround with a range around 50 miles. 

What do you mean by "budget EV at £10k?"

If you mean brand new list price, then those days are gone.  Even the Dacia Sandero starts at >£11k.

If you include used, then that day is already here with a wide choice, with change to spare.  One example today:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201291902605

I was thinking new but I guess things have moved on!. I got our ex-demo Citigo for £6500 in 2015 with only a couple of hundred miles on the clock. The electric equivalent is now £20k new.

In that time there has been a big shift to leasing rather than purchasing outright. 

That Zoe looks promising. I notice some of them the battery is leased.

Grumpy_chap

2nd_time_buyer said:

I was thinking new but I guess things have moved on!. I got our ex-demo Citigo for £6500 in 2015 with only a couple of hundred miles on the clock. The electric equivalent is now £20k new.

In that time there has been a big shift to leasing rather than purchasing outright. 

That Zoe looks promising. I notice some of them the battery is leased.

 Hard to see how the Citigo makes a viable option for anyone at £20k.

The financing is all smoke and mirrors, designed to obscure the truth.

I did try to check on the Zoe if it was battery lease or not.  I think not, but unsure.  I would not buy a battery lease version.

You can get into a perfectly good Leaf from around £6k.

We may find the £20k starting price stick, but inflation reduce it in real terms.

EVandPV

Grumpy_chap said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

I was thinking new but I guess things have moved on!. I got our ex-demo Citigo for £6500 in 2015 with only a couple of hundred miles on the clock. The electric equivalent is now £20k new.

In that time there has been a big shift to leasing rather than purchasing outright. 

That Zoe looks promising. I notice some of them the battery is leased.

I did try to check on the Zoe if it was battery lease or not.  I think not, but unsure.  I would not buy a battery lease version.

I've mentioned this before on here but all the older battery leased Zoe's now have the option to buy out the lease.
From what I hear, the 22kwh models will be around £3k or less depending on the age of the car.
My guess would be that one is leased. Battery owned Zoe's prior to the ZE50 had an 'i' in the model name.

Martyn1981

2nd_time_buyer said:

I am sure this has been covered elsewhere but how far do you think we are away from a budget BEV around the £10k mark? Will we ever get there? Or has the price of the cheapest car effectively doubled permanently.

I am thinking a little city runaround with a range around 50 miles. 

There is the Wuling Mini EV in China, which often outsells Tesla. And it boosts GM's world sales (given their 26 BEV's sold in the US last quarter) since all sales are often counted rather than allowing for GM's minority stake.

It's roughly $5,000 and there is talk of producing a bigger version for Europe, but who knows? The problem is that whilst it's classed as a car in China, it wouldn't get that classification in Europe, and probably too heavy to be a quadrycycle. In the US I think it would be classed as a NEV (neighbourghood electric vehicle), a classification that allows some vehicles, often golf carts, to operate on some roads.

Purely guessing, but let's say they bulk up the Wuling a bit, more power and batts, and some safety gear (it doesn't really have any), so $10k, and then shipping and duties, perhaps $15k, so £11k. Hmm, not sure about that, but perhaps as a city runabout it would work well, just avoid any bumps with vehicles of a greater mass.

Edit - I think Grumpy and EV are right, the SH BEV's probably offer best value, and whilst their range isn't massive, it's more than enough in context.

2nd_time_buyer

Martyn1981 said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

I am sure this has been covered elsewhere but how far do you think we are away from a budget BEV around the £10k mark? Will we ever get there? Or has the price of the cheapest car effectively doubled permanently.

I am thinking a little city runaround with a range around 50 miles. 

There is the Wuling Mini EV in China, which often outsells Tesla. And it boosts GM's world sales (given their 26 BEV's sold in the US last quarter) since all sales are often counted rather than allowing for GM's minority stake.

It's roughly $5,000 and there is talk of producing a bigger version for Europe, but who knows? The problem is that whilst it's classed as a car in China, it wouldn't get that classification in Europe, and probably too heavy to be a quadrycycle. In the US I think it would be classed as a NEV (neighbourghood electric vehicle), a classification that allows some vehicles, often golf carts, to operate on some roads.

Purely guessing, but let's say they bulk up the Wuling a bit, more power and batts, and some safety gear (it doesn't really have any), so $10k, and then shipping and duties, perhaps $15k, so £11k. Hmm, not sure about that, but perhaps as a city runabout it would work well, just avoid any bumps with vehicles of a greater mass.

Interesting, I would still rather be hit in that rather hit riding a bike. I wonder if the future is the C5.

What I really like about that Wuling is that it is four seats. Everything vaguely similar in the UK has been 2 seats, so not really suitable for the school run etc.

It feels like there is a big gap in the market for something between a golf buggy and a car, which would be suitable for most urban duties. 

michaels

Grumpy_chap said:

2nd_time_buyer said:

I am sure this has been covered elsewhere but how far do you think we are away from a budget BEV around the £10k mark? Will we ever get there? Or has the price of the cheapest car effectively doubled permanently.

I am thinking a little city runaround with a range around 50 miles. 

What do you mean by "budget EV at £10k?"

If you mean brand new list price, then those days are gone.  Even the Dacia Sandero starts at >£11k.

If you include used, then that day is already here with a wide choice, with change to spare.  One example today:
https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-details/202201291902605

Cheapest cars
2020 Sandero 6,995
2021 8,995
2022 10,145

No wonder inflation is out of control.  I wonder if things will ever go back to more 'normal' when the chip shortage ends - even if new car volumes go back more to normal there will still be a shortfall of between 1 and 2m in the second hand pipeline.

EricMears

2nd_time_buyer said:

I was thinking new but I guess things have moved on!. I got our ex-demo Citigo for £6500 in 2015 with only a couple of hundred miles on the clock. The electric equivalent is now £20k new.

We bought an ex-demo VW e-Up! in 2015.  That's pretty well identical to the Citigo.

It can't have done very much 'demo-ing' as it had less than 170 miles on clock when we collected it (and ten of those miles had been our test drive).  At the time its list price was £20k and we were happy to buy it for £15k.

The current models of e-Up! & Citigo have approx twice the battery size that ours had so if list price is still £20k it seems quite a bargain

Martyn1981

More heavy BEV truck news:

Heavy Duty Electric Trucks In Sweden & Denmark: The EV Revolution Rolls Forward

Heavy duty electric trucks from Volvo and Scania are now available to handle the toughest tasks in transportation.

Grumpy_chap

Grumpy_chap said:

We may find the £20k starting price stick, but inflation reduce it in real terms.

EricMears said:

We bought an ex-demo VW e-Up! in 2015.  That's pretty well identical to the Citigo.
At the time its list price was £20k and we were happy to buy it for £15k.

The current models of e-Up! & Citigo have approx twice the battery size that ours had so if list price is still £20k it seems quite a bargain

Does seem to answer the question that the £20k price-tag is one to get used to and only time will lesson the impact.  No budget EV at £10k (not new anyhow).

Superscrooge

Grumpy_chap said:

Grumpy_chap said:

We may find the £20k starting price stick, but inflation reduce it in real terms.

EricMears said:

We bought an ex-demo VW e-Up! in 2015.  That's pretty well identical to the Citigo.
At the time its list price was £20k and we were happy to buy it for £15k.

The current models of e-Up! & Citigo have approx twice the battery size that ours had so if list price is still £20k it seems quite a bargain

Does seem to answer the question that the £20k price-tag is one to get used to and only time will lesson the impact.  No budget EV at £10k (not new anyhow).

Citroen Ami is under £10k. Renault Twizy about £12k