The Alternative Green Energy Thread

ABrass

EricMears said:

Cardew said:

This paragraph from the report will not be welcomed by some!

'Renewable energy costs have continued to decrease in recent years and their costs are now competitive, in LCOE terms, with dispatchable fossil fuel-based electricity generation in many countries. The cost of electricity from new nuclear power plants remains stable, yet electricity from the long-term operation of nuclear power plants constitutes the least cost option for low-carbon generation.'

Guess the authors weren't aware of Hinkley Point ?

They were, probably, they were actually describing the cost of lifetime extensions for existing plants, rather than building new ones.

Electricity produced from nuclear long-term operation (LTO) by lifetime extension is highly competitive and remains not only the least cost option for low-carbon generation - <b>when compared to building new power plants</b> - but for all power generation across the board

I hit the code button instead of quote, but I'm going with it.

Of course lifetime extensions are good value, no significant build costs or grid connections. Great value. As to cost for new plants staying level, you'd need to dig into the data to see how they get that. Despite the headline it's from the Nuclear Energy Authority which only deals with the OCED countries, not China for example. China is famous for building huge civil engineering projects at dirt cheap cost, although sometimes at low quality (see bullet trains), if they're included then that would probably explain how the cost comes out level.

We'd also need to dig into the data to see how they treated battery and solar combinations, which will increase the value proposition dramatically.

But it's the IEA, they've got an excellent track record for predicting renewable energy cost trends for the future.

Edit: They didn't take Hinkley into account. None of the data includes any UK plants.

ABrass

That report doesn't age well. For example they are using cost estimates for things from 2018 or earlier. Apparently this year utility Lithium ion batteries should cost around $650 (adjusted for 2015 prices) per kWh and should last 10 years.

Tesla megapacks sell for around $350 per kWh and are expected to last 15-20 years.

Also, lithium ion EV batteries should currently cost $193 per kWh. The real current prices of $140 is forecast to be reached around 2026.

Yet another IEA steampunk forecast.

JKenH

Why Aren’t Falling Renewables Costs Cutting European Energy Market Prices?

With the price cap on (standard tariff) electricity bills set to rise by 12% from October I thought this article from green tech media would be interesting. 

There are several factors to consider. First, renewables still account for a relatively small proportion of overall electricity generation across Europe. Second, recent LCOE reductions from the newest solar and wind projects may not outweigh the costs of clean energy from older plants subsidized through support mechanisms such as feed-in tariffs. 

A further explanation, familiar from the anti-renewables playbook, is that the variable output of wind and solar plants has to be balanced by the frequent, rapid ramping up and down of fossil-fuel generators, which adds to electricity costs and carbon emissions.

But there’s another, more important factor to consider: the relatively weak power price formation role that renewables now play in European markets. 

“Whichever plant was required to meet the last megawatt of demand is the price-setting technology,” said Tom Edwards, senior modeler at Cornwall Insight, in an email. While low-cost renewables offset a certain portion of the grid’s needs, it’s still fossil-fuel-fired plants that are setting the marginal costs.

https://www.greentechmedia.com/articles/read/why-arent-lower-renewable-costs-cutting-european-energy-market-prices

JKenH

Emissions averaged 204g/kWh through July. 

QrizB

JKenH said:

Emissions averaged 204g/kWh through July.

The biggest carbon footprint changes change from June (172g/kWh) seem to be that wind was only 11.7% (15.8%) and nuclear 15.1% (18.2%) of the energy mix.

shinytop

JKenH said:

Emissions averaged 204g/kWh through July. 

How does that compare to, for example, a modern car engine or a gas boiler?

QrizB

shinytop said:

JKenH said:

Emissions averaged 204g/kWh through July. 

How does that compare to, for example, a modern car engine or a gas boiler?

I've seen natural gas quoted as around 200g per kWh when used for heating.

JKenH

shinytop said:

JKenH said:

Emissions averaged 204g/kWh through July. 

How does that compare to, for example, a modern car engine or a gas boiler?

One answer - other calculations may be available. 

Petrol engined vehicle

Therefore Well-to-Wheel, each kWh of energy transmitted to the wheels emits nominally around 1490 g of CO2 (= 5.6 kWh x 3.6 MJ/kWh / 37 MJ/l x 2.35 kg CO2/l x (1+17%) x 1000 g/kg)

Diesel engined vehicle

Therefore, each kWh of energy transmitted to the wheels emits, Well-to-Wheel, around 1380gofCO2 (=4.5kWhx3.6MJ/kWh/38MJ/lx2.7kgCO2/lx(1+19%)x1000g/kg)

Electric vehicle with lithium batteries 

Therefore, with the average EU energy mix, each kWh of energy transmitted to the wheels generates around 616 g of CO2 Well-to-Wheel (= 1.4 kWh x 290 g CO2/kWh).

https://ec.europa.eu/transport/sites/default/files/themes/strategies/consultations/doc/2009_03_27_future_of_transport/20090408_eabev_%28scientific_study%29.pdf

JKenH

Where there’s muck there’s brass

In particular, National Grid ESO procuring power from EDF’s West Burton B in the Balancing Market at the record breaking £4,000/MWh on Friday 8 Januarycontributed to the companies significant takeaway. This was some 70 times greater than the average price paid over 2020.

As such, West Burton B achieved the highest daily revenue from the Balancing Mechanism, receiving over £7.5 million in a single day, which contributed to it also achieving the highest monthly value across January as well .

Although the EDF owned plant did not produce large volumes of power in January, its ability to react to demand meant that it made over £20 million. This was about 21% of National Grid ESO’s total spend of £100 million on securing margins.

https://www.current-news.co.uk/news/edf-made-over-7-5m-in-one-day-in-january-as-it-reacted-to-tight-margins

JKenH

Green homes plan to banish gas boilers goes on the back burner

(From 15th July)

The heat and buildings plan, set to include a target date for the end to new gas boilers from 2035, had been readied for release last week.

But it will now not be released until the autumn, as the Government tries to come up with new ideas to cushion the cost of switching to greener alternatives to gas boilers.

Among the proposals in the strategy is a commitment to review the difference between electricity and gas costs, which currently mean greener heat pumps are on average £400 more expensive to run annually than gas boilers.

That could see gas prices rise to make them more expensive compared to electricity.

A carbon price on gas for heating is also under consideration, echoing a similar move in the European Union.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/environment/2021/07/15/green-homes-plan-delayed-amid-concerns-backlash-costs/