The Alternative Green Energy Thread

JKenH

Following up on the Planet of the Humans theme I thought this was worth watching, again from an environmental campaigner.

https://youtu.be/N-yALPEpV4w

joefizz

JKenH said:

 I am an enthusiastic supporter of RE but it has made me think again about some environmental aspects of technologies labelled as green.

The film is flawed in many ways but Ive posted on here before about the wood pellets shipped across the atlantic thing and being labelled as 'green'. Good to see that being called out but I fear that might get lost in the noise of the inaccuracies and out of date stuff.

On a similar vein in the previous EV thread I mentioned mots being used to force good useable cars off the road and people commenting about safety and all that stuff. Well what about the years extension to MOTs in NI just announced... will probably end up a permanent thing here every 2 years instead of one. Also seeing some renewed interest in scrappage scheme so probably see one of those opening up once lockdown is lifted, all in the name of saving the planet, not saving the car industry you understand...

The current predicament is what would be required (in the uk at least) for a serious reduction for climate change. Problem is we dont know the ramifications, will the global dimming effect cause short term havoc (highest month ever last month in solar despite only being april, never seen so many blossoms on my apple trees, yet frost likely this weekend). Its now when models get thrown out and we can get real data. Of course the data will only be available in proper format a year from now.

Some of the changes will be for the good, if more people work from home, less journeys, less unnecessary flights, an end to stupid people putting dogs in cars and driving to 'take them for a walk', less cheap tat from china etc etc. Time will tell if its a blip or if its something permanent. One thing is for sure, the public transport thing is going to be a real hard sell.

JKenH

joefizz said:

JKenH said:

 I am an enthusiastic supporter of RE but it has made me think again about some environmental aspects of technologies labelled as green.

The film is flawed in many ways but Ive posted on here before about the wood pellets shipped across the atlantic thing and being labelled as 'green'. Good to see that being called out but I fear that might get lost in the noise of the inaccuracies and out of date stuff.

On a similar vein in the previous EV thread I mentioned mots being used to force good useable cars off the road and people commenting about safety and all that stuff. Well what about the years extension to MOTs in NI just announced... will probably end up a permanent thing here every 2 years instead of one. Also seeing some renewed interest in scrappage scheme so probably see one of those opening up once lockdown is lifted, all in the name of saving the planet, not saving the car industry you understand...

The current predicament is what would be required (in the uk at least) for a serious reduction for climate change. Problem is we dont know the ramifications, will the global dimming effect cause short term havoc (highest month ever last month in solar despite only being april, never seen so many blossoms on my apple trees, yet frost likely this weekend). Its now when models get thrown out and we can get real data. Of course the data will only be available in proper format a year from now.

Some of the changes will be for the good, if more people work from home, less journeys, less unnecessary flights, an end to stupid people putting dogs in cars and driving to 'take them for a walk', less cheap tat from china etc etc. Time will tell if its a blip or if its something permanent. One thing is for sure, the public transport thing is going to be a real hard sell.

The importance of the film is that it makes people stop and think (in much the same way as GA’s posts did). Yes it is flawed and labels all RE as bad; I don’t agree with that but then not all RE is green.

The RE message to date has been too binary. Oil/coal = bad; any alternative = good. That is too simplistic. Depopulating and burning jungle to grow eco fuels is not ethical or good for the planet.

For me solar, wind, wind, hydro, batteries, electric cars are a move in the right direction. Can they solve all our energy problems now - no. In the future maybe. In the meantime we have to accept that fossil fuels and nuclear will continue to play a part in our energy mix.

On a brighter note I cannot recall seeing our woodland look any more floriferous or the world in general seem a better place.

EVandPV

 (in much the same way as GA’s posts did)

Who ? 

EVandPV

On a brighter note I cannot recall seeing our woodland look any more floriferous or the world in general seem a better place.

Agreed.
The sky seems a deeper blue than I've seen in years.
I don't think there's much doubt pollution levels have dropped significantly since the start of the pandemic.

joefizz

JKenH said:

The RE message to date has been too binary. Oil/coal = bad; any alternative = good. That is too simplistic. Depopulating and burning jungle to grow eco fuels is not ethical or good for the planet.

This is what really irks me at times. It shows the simplistic nature of some of the posters and people blogging. Most dont realise that 'big oil' is actually 'big energy' and some of the oil companies are the biggest investers in RE. They know what the future is and most of them have the cash to buy up any tech going. Im old enough to remember the failed BP 'beyond petroleum' ads... that was before the gulf of mexico of course...

Its a bit hypocritical of anyone with a private pension or uk index tracker to complain about 'big oil' as where do they think their money is coming from (although thats going to fall with the recent shell dividend cut).
Right now the only way to make RE is to use fossil fuels and its that usage which should be looked after. Price will dictate that it will be, a few months ago I made the prediction that oil would fall in price then go skywards in a few years time. I didnt think it would fall this low which makes me think the price rises will be even higher. As the film points out, anyone thinking RE will fill the gap to 'normal' is mad in the head. Of course RE can now fill the gap to 'the new normal' but as I and others have pointed out in the past this is the new normal we would need to embrace and its not even sure if what the current situation is, is enough. Then theres the question of is it too much and perhaps the coal fired power stations will need to fire up to compensate (and Im only half joking).

One thing is for sure, this is certainly showing up the damage we do and we have always been the problem, not RE, not oil, us. Friends near rivers are reporting seeing clear water and fish jumping like they have never experienced. I actually noticed a plane last night and it seemed odd, which considering I live below one of the main transatlantic routes, that is odd. The era of cheap flights is probably at an end, if not very close.
Its been colder at nights here than it should which makes a nonsense of the ashp solution as defined in UK specs. Despite having enough solar spare to run it all night, most of the time the temperatures are down near or below its optimum, I may as well just have the infra red heaters going. A lot of this will have to be re-thought as obviously we have new data and for a longer period after 9/11 etc.

JKenH

Wind farms in Britain were paid a record £.9.3m to switch off their turbines on Friday

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2020/05/23/wind-farms-paid-record-93m-switch-turbines/

JKenH

The UK government’s approval of a large new gas-fired power plant has been ruled legal by the high court. A legal challenge was brought after ministers overruled climate change objections from planning authorities.

The plant, which is being developed by Drax in North Yorkshire, would be the biggest gas power station in Europe, and could account for 75% of the UK’s power sector emissions when fully operational, according to lawyers for ClientEarth, which brought the judicial review.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/22/uk-approval-for-biggest-gas-power-station-europe-ruled-legal-high-court-climate-planning?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

JKenH

Two British startups have announced plans to invest as much as £4bn in building the UK’s first large-scale battery factory, in a move that could prove a major boost to the country’s struggling car industry.

AMTE Power and Britishvolt have signed a memorandum of understanding saying they will work together on plans for a plant to make lithium ion batteries, the key component in electric cars as well as energy storage products.

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/may/20/uk-first-car-battery-gigafactory-amte-power-britishvolt?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

joefizz

JKenH said:

The UK government’s approval of a large new gas-fired power plant has been ruled legal by the high court. A legal challenge was brought after ministers overruled climate change objections from planning authorities.

The plant, which is being developed by Drax in North Yorkshire, would be the biggest gas power station in Europe, and could account for 75% of the UK’s power sector emissions when fully operational, according to lawyers for ClientEarth, which brought the judicial review.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/may/22/uk-approval-for-biggest-gas-power-station-europe-ruled-legal-high-court-climate-planning?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

I think this might be one to watch for the future. If it goes gas powered now, it could then go hydrogen/hydrogen mix powered in the future and its in the right place for excess wind coming ashore (more or less).