The Alternative Green Energy Thread

Magnitio

JKenH said:

So is this the middle ground that might finally bring some consensus betweenh “deniers” and “zealots”? Bill Gates is no idiot. Perhaps he can steer us along that middle ground between business as usual and regime change. Hyperbole hasn’t worked - will common sense?

Bill Gates says climate crisis won’t cause ‘humanity’s demise’ in call to shift focus to ‘improving lives’

In the note on Monday, Gates said: “Although climate change will have serious consequences – particularly for people in the poorest countries – it will not lead to humanity’s demise. People will be able to live and thrive in most places on Earth for the foreseeable future.”

He said the Cop30 climate summit, which will bring together world leaders in the Brazilian rainforest city of Belém in November, was “a chance to refocus on the metric that should count even more than emissions and temperature change: improving lives”.

“Although climate change will hurt poor people more than anyone else, for the vast majority of them it will not be the only or even the biggest threat to their lives and welfare,” Gates wrote.

“The biggest problems are poverty and disease, just as they always have been. Understanding this will let us focus our limited resources on interventions that will have the greatest impact for the most vulnerable people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/28/bill-gates-climate-crisis-pivot

I’m sure the people of Jamaica will be delighted to hear this news from Bill.

JKenH

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

So is this the middle ground that might finally bring some consensus betweenh “deniers” and “zealots”? Bill Gates is no idiot. Perhaps he can steer us along that middle ground between business as usual and regime change. Hyperbole hasn’t worked - will common sense?

Bill Gates says climate crisis won’t cause ‘humanity’s demise’ in call to shift focus to ‘improving lives’

In the note on Monday, Gates said: “Although climate change will have serious consequences – particularly for people in the poorest countries – it will not lead to humanity’s demise. People will be able to live and thrive in most places on Earth for the foreseeable future.”

He said the Cop30 climate summit, which will bring together world leaders in the Brazilian rainforest city of Belém in November, was “a chance to refocus on the metric that should count even more than emissions and temperature change: improving lives”.

“Although climate change will hurt poor people more than anyone else, for the vast majority of them it will not be the only or even the biggest threat to their lives and welfare,” Gates wrote.

“The biggest problems are poverty and disease, just as they always have been. Understanding this will let us focus our limited resources on interventions that will have the greatest impact for the most vulnerable people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/28/bill-gates-climate-crisis-pivot

I’m sure the people of Jamaica will be delighted to hear this news from Bill.

Thank you. Yes, the reporting about Hurricane Melissa illustrates the point Bill Gates is making. We don’t know the final death toll yet from Melissa but an hour ago BBC put it at 28. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1e34p92q0vo The Caribbean has always had hurricanes and always will. Yes, for those affected, those 28 deaths, are tragic but are you aware that in 2024 Dengue Fever killed 9,875 people in Latin America and the Caribbean? Do the BBC and MSM remind us every day us about that like they do with climate change? The media coverage given to Melissa, and the lack of reporting about Dengue Fever demonstrates how those pushing world governments to focus on climate change are failing to recognise and indeed driving resources away from the vastly greater number of deaths from disease.

How many more lives could we save by redirecting some of the billions being spent on climate change policies into providing better medical care to those in third world countries?

So, yes, maybe the people of Jamaica will actually be delighted to hear this news from Bill Gates. 

Alnat1

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

So is this the middle ground that might finally bring some consensus betweenh “deniers” and “zealots”? Bill Gates is no idiot. Perhaps he can steer us along that middle ground between business as usual and regime change. Hyperbole hasn’t worked - will common sense?

Bill Gates says climate crisis won’t cause ‘humanity’s demise’ in call to shift focus to ‘improving lives’

In the note on Monday, Gates said: “Although climate change will have serious consequences – particularly for people in the poorest countries – it will not lead to humanity’s demise. People will be able to live and thrive in most places on Earth for the foreseeable future.”

He said the Cop30 climate summit, which will bring together world leaders in the Brazilian rainforest city of Belém in November, was “a chance to refocus on the metric that should count even more than emissions and temperature change: improving lives”.

“Although climate change will hurt poor people more than anyone else, for the vast majority of them it will not be the only or even the biggest threat to their lives and welfare,” Gates wrote.

“The biggest problems are poverty and disease, just as they always have been. Understanding this will let us focus our limited resources on interventions that will have the greatest impact for the most vulnerable people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/28/bill-gates-climate-crisis-pivot

I’m sure the people of Jamaica will be delighted to hear this news from Bill.

Thank you. that comment perfectly illustrates the point Bill Gates is making. We don’t know the final death toll yet from Melissa but an hour ago BBC put it at 28. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1e34p92q0vo The Caribbean has always had hurricanes and always will. Yes, for those affected, those 28 deaths, are tragic but are you aware that in 2024 Dengue Fever killed 9,875 people in Latin America and the Caribbean? Do the BBC and MSM tell us about that? The media coverage given to Melissa, and the lack of reporting about Dengue Fever demonstrates how those pushing world governments to focus on climate change are failing to recognise and indeed driving resources away from the vastly greater number of deaths from disease.

How many more lives could we save by redirecting some of the billions being spent on climate change policies into providing better medical care to those in third world countries?

So, yes, maybe the people of Jamaica will actually be delighted to hear this news from Bill Gates. 

How much disease and illness will be caused in Jamaica by the damage to power, water and sanitation networks, caused by Melissa? Not to mention the damaged and destroyed homes, hospitals and other necessary public buildings?

JKenH

Alnat1 said:

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

So is this the middle ground that might finally bring some consensus betweenh “deniers” and “zealots”? Bill Gates is no idiot. Perhaps he can steer us along that middle ground between business as usual and regime change. Hyperbole hasn’t worked - will common sense?

Bill Gates says climate crisis won’t cause ‘humanity’s demise’ in call to shift focus to ‘improving lives’

In the note on Monday, Gates said: “Although climate change will have serious consequences – particularly for people in the poorest countries – it will not lead to humanity’s demise. People will be able to live and thrive in most places on Earth for the foreseeable future.”

He said the Cop30 climate summit, which will bring together world leaders in the Brazilian rainforest city of Belém in November, was “a chance to refocus on the metric that should count even more than emissions and temperature change: improving lives”.

“Although climate change will hurt poor people more than anyone else, for the vast majority of them it will not be the only or even the biggest threat to their lives and welfare,” Gates wrote.

“The biggest problems are poverty and disease, just as they always have been. Understanding this will let us focus our limited resources on interventions that will have the greatest impact for the most vulnerable people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/28/bill-gates-climate-crisis-pivot

I’m sure the people of Jamaica will be delighted to hear this news from Bill.

Thank you. that comment perfectly illustrates the point Bill Gates is making. We don’t know the final death toll yet from Melissa but an hour ago BBC put it at 28. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1e34p92q0vo The Caribbean has always had hurricanes and always will. Yes, for those affected, those 28 deaths, are tragic but are you aware that in 2024 Dengue Fever killed 9,875 people in Latin America and the Caribbean? Do the BBC and MSM tell us about that? The media coverage given to Melissa, and the lack of reporting about Dengue Fever demonstrates how those pushing world governments to focus on climate change are failing to recognise and indeed driving resources away from the vastly greater number of deaths from disease.

How many more lives could we save by redirecting some of the billions being spent on climate change policies into providing better medical care to those in third world countries?

So, yes, maybe the people of Jamaica will actually be delighted to hear this news from Bill Gates. 

How much disease and illness will be caused in Jamaica by the damage to power, water and sanitation networks, caused by Melissa? Not to mention the damaged and destroyed homes, hospitals and other necessary public buildings?

Yes, there will probably be illness and disease but I doubt that water and sanitation networks will be that badly affected as they tend to be underground. Hurricanes happen regularly in the Caribbean causing widespread damage, this one was more severe than normal but my point is some people have such tunnel vision when it comes to climate change that they cannot accept there are other more pressing issues for much of the world’s population.

thevilla

JKenH said:

Alnat1 said:

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

So is this the middle ground that might finally bring some consensus betweenh “deniers” and “zealots”? Bill Gates is no idiot. Perhaps he can steer us along that middle ground between business as usual and regime change. Hyperbole hasn’t worked - will common sense?

Bill Gates says climate crisis won’t cause ‘humanity’s demise’ in call to shift focus to ‘improving lives’

In the note on Monday, Gates said: “Although climate change will have serious consequences – particularly for people in the poorest countries – it will not lead to humanity’s demise. People will be able to live and thrive in most places on Earth for the foreseeable future.”

He said the Cop30 climate summit, which will bring together world leaders in the Brazilian rainforest city of Belém in November, was “a chance to refocus on the metric that should count even more than emissions and temperature change: improving lives”.

“Although climate change will hurt poor people more than anyone else, for the vast majority of them it will not be the only or even the biggest threat to their lives and welfare,” Gates wrote.

“The biggest problems are poverty and disease, just as they always have been. Understanding this will let us focus our limited resources on interventions that will have the greatest impact for the most vulnerable people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/28/bill-gates-climate-crisis-pivot

I’m sure the people of Jamaica will be delighted to hear this news from Bill.

Thank you. that comment perfectly illustrates the point Bill Gates is making. We don’t know the final death toll yet from Melissa but an hour ago BBC put it at 28. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1e34p92q0vo The Caribbean has always had hurricanes and always will. Yes, for those affected, those 28 deaths, are tragic but are you aware that in 2024 Dengue Fever killed 9,875 people in Latin America and the Caribbean? Do the BBC and MSM tell us about that? The media coverage given to Melissa, and the lack of reporting about Dengue Fever demonstrates how those pushing world governments to focus on climate change are failing to recognise and indeed driving resources away from the vastly greater number of deaths from disease.

How many more lives could we save by redirecting some of the billions being spent on climate change policies into providing better medical care to those in third world countries?

So, yes, maybe the people of Jamaica will actually be delighted to hear this news from Bill Gates. 

How much disease and illness will be caused in Jamaica by the damage to power, water and sanitation networks, caused by Melissa? Not to mention the damaged and destroyed homes, hospitals and other necessary public buildings?

Yes, there will probably be illness and disease but I doubt that water and sanitation networks will be that badly affected as they tend to be underground. Hurricanes happen regularly in the Caribbean causing widespread damage, this one was more severe than normal but my point is some people have such tunnel vision when it comes to climate change that they cannot accept there are other more pressing issues for much of the world’s population.

Is COP to right forum for "improving lives"?  Surely the UN is the place and has more appropriate forums.

Is Bill suggesting that the billions of dollars being invested in RE was taken from the budget for global health?  I very much doubt that's true.  The global poor have always been neglected by the west and suggesting we switch investment from RE is just another way of maintaining the fossil industry.  More oil, less RE and oh.  Sorry no money for the poor again.  The vocal anti RE brigade tend to be on the right and foreign aid doesn't seem a priority for them.  USAID is a shocking example.

Once we've stopped trying to slow climate change what happens?  It doesn't stop and say 'good try'.  CO2 increases to ever more dangerous levels.  At what point in the slow moving disaster do we try again?  Mitigation costs will increase until the planet is bankrupt.  That leaves little for "improving lives".

RE is actually improving lives for the poor.  Solar PV is the cheapest electrical generation and is penetrating where grid supplies have never ventured.  It is also keeping a lid on rampant fossil demand increases which would otherwise have driven prices higher.  The poor would be left out again.

JKenH

Here is the full text of Bill Gates’s submission to COP30. I don’t see Gates as part of the vocal anti- RE brigade.

https://www.gatesnotes.com/three-tough-truths-about-climate

michaels

JKenH said:

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

So is this the middle ground that might finally bring some consensus betweenh “deniers” and “zealots”? Bill Gates is no idiot. Perhaps he can steer us along that middle ground between business as usual and regime change. Hyperbole hasn’t worked - will common sense?

Bill Gates says climate crisis won’t cause ‘humanity’s demise’ in call to shift focus to ‘improving lives’

In the note on Monday, Gates said: “Although climate change will have serious consequences – particularly for people in the poorest countries – it will not lead to humanity’s demise. People will be able to live and thrive in most places on Earth for the foreseeable future.”

He said the Cop30 climate summit, which will bring together world leaders in the Brazilian rainforest city of Belém in November, was “a chance to refocus on the metric that should count even more than emissions and temperature change: improving lives”.

“Although climate change will hurt poor people more than anyone else, for the vast majority of them it will not be the only or even the biggest threat to their lives and welfare,” Gates wrote.

“The biggest problems are poverty and disease, just as they always have been. Understanding this will let us focus our limited resources on interventions that will have the greatest impact for the most vulnerable people.”

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/oct/28/bill-gates-climate-crisis-pivot

I’m sure the people of Jamaica will be delighted to hear this news from Bill.

Thank you. Yes, the reporting about Hurricane Melissa illustrates the point Bill Gates is making. We don’t know the final death toll yet from Melissa but an hour ago BBC put it at 28. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c1e34p92q0vo The Caribbean has always had hurricanes and always will. Yes, for those affected, those 28 deaths, are tragic but are you aware that in 2024 Dengue Fever killed 9,875 people in Latin America and the Caribbean? Do the BBC and MSM remind us every day us about that like they do with climate change? The media coverage given to Melissa, and the lack of reporting about Dengue Fever demonstrates how those pushing world governments to focus on climate change are failing to recognise and indeed driving resources away from the vastly greater number of deaths from disease.

How many more lives could we save by redirecting some of the billions being spent on climate change policies into providing better medical care to those in third world countries?

So, yes, maybe the people of Jamaica will actually be delighted to hear this news from Bill Gates. 

Interesting point.  As you are aware climate change is allowing malaria carrying mosquitos to make inroads into Europe.

JKenH

I suspect Bill Gates is. Malaria gets five mentions in his submission. He has through his foundation made eliminating malaria a top priority.

JKenH

Is China doing enough to combat Global Warming? 

@Screwdriva’s “Overexposed: a study on forced labour in Solar Panel Manufacturing (by Brand)” thread was getting dragged off topic by an argument about China’s fossil fuel use and the last post there was:



I thought in fairness to @Screwdriva I would continue this potentially contentious topic here.  I acknowledge opinions will be divided but I want to explain why I feel China isn’t doing enough.

I’ll start with this Guardian article from September https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2025/sep/07/china-fossil-fuel-us-climate-environment-energy
which, to a degree, puts both sides of the argument. I can’t quote it all but two quotes (in bold/italics) basically sum up the problem.

There have been false dawns in the past. Coal – the most polluting of fossil fuels – drove China’s supercharged economic growth for most of the past three decades, though production declined for a few years in the wake of the global financial crisis and plateaued briefly during the Covid lockdown. Whether predictions of peak carbon prove more substantial this time will depend on the Beijing leadership’s next five-year plan, a domestic policy document for 2026-2030 being drawn up by the leadership in Beijing. 

Speculation about the priorities continues to swirl. On one side is caution and a sense of justice that China should not try to step into the void left by the US because that would allow the latter to escape its responsibility as the world’s biggest historical emitter. 

Many in the West who are concerned about emissions refuse to criticise China because historic industrial CO2 emissions were down to the West and countries like China (and India) should be allowed to catch up (and damn the consequences it seems). Very moral, but the world will still burn while China looks after its own interests and that will be to continue to burn coal). If renewables are the answer to the world’s prayers, why does China need fossil fuels to move people out of poverty when apparently Africa doesn’t?

When China’s coal burning is highlighted the apologists raise the defence - but look at all the renewables it is building, renewables are meeting the whole of increased demand etc. New renewables capacity does not in itself stop CO2 levels rising  nor does displacing some fossil fuels +only shutting down fossil fuel use completely will do that. China is way off course and not keeping to its commitments. Even if they get back on track we have had years when CO2 levels have risen more than they needed to. Apologists seem to forget that CO2 is cumulative (it is the area under the curve that matters) - as long as China gets there in the end is all that seems to matter.

Scientists and campaigners say the climate will not be stabilised solely by selling more photovoltaic cells or windmill blades; it is also necessary to phase out fossil fuels. On this half of the balance sheet, China’s record remains “highly insufficient” and its current policies would, if continued, push the planet towards 4C of heating, according to Climate Action Tracker, an independent initiative assessing countries’ compliance with the Paris agreement. It points out that China is off course from the commitments it previously made to “strictly limit” coal use and to reduce energy and carbon intensity by 2025.

I have heard it said we need to make all these sacrifices in the UK or there will be no world for our grand children. But what sort of a world will it be if we continue  to hit our targets and China continues with its current policies?  One with temperatures increasing by 4C! Is that what we want? No. So let’s stop pretending that China is pulling its weight. Only where China sees a direct threat to its prosperity will it alter course. China’s development and deployment of renewables to date has been entirely because it has suited it, economically and from an urban pollution perspective), to go down that route. If China decides that fossil fuel deployment is still needed it will continue burning coal if that is the best economic and strategic option for it (and given the continued construction of new coal fired power stations it seems it is). Expecting a dictatorship to be moved by western concerns is a delusion. China will continue to to attend COP meetings and make the right noises because economically and politically it suits them to do so (after all they want the world to keep buying solar panels and wind turbines from them) and then go back and carry on doing what’s best for China.

,

Magnitio

https://www.carbonbrief.org/china-briefing-30-october-2025-15th-five-year-plan-priorities-2035-wind-goal-vehicle-to-grid-tech/