The Alternative Green Energy Thread

Reed_Richards

Maybe Eon is still holding out?  I can't find anything to say that they are participating this winter.  

michaels

I was having a look for DFS operators as potentially with our V2H and smart meter export finally being readable (it wasn't last winter) we could have made a lot of money under the old rules but couldn't find any I thought worth signing up to (we are not supplied by Octopus so can't go with them)

Registered providers list | National Energy System Operator

Reed_Richards

JKenH said:

Telegraph article reporting a fall off in participation in ‘saving sessions’. I took part in all last year’s saving sessions but decided this year it wasn’t worth the effort.

Net zero target at risk as households drop out of electricity rationing scheme

Participation plunges after payments on offer to those avoiding peak energy hours fall dramatically

In a plan published on Friday, the Government says this will be achieved by using “smart” devices to shift demand from electric car chargers, heat pumps and other appliances such as fridges and washing machines outside of peak hours.

But despite the policy implying that many millions of consumers will need to sign up in the coming years, participation in the country’s flagship flexibility scheme has gone into reverse – having more than halved this winter, figures provided to The Telegraph show.

At this time last year, more than 2m consumers had signed up to the so-called demand flexibility service.

But today the figure stands at about 750,000, a drop of about 62pc, according to the National Energy System Operator (Neso), which manages Britain’s power grid.

It follows a decision to slash the payments offered to customers by as much as 90pc.

Energy industry insiders said the decision had dented the attractiveness of the scheme, leading to a lacklustre take-up from most suppliers.

Octopus Energy, Britain’s biggest electricity supplier with around 6.8m customers, accounts for 740,000 or about 99pc of sign-ups this year – a total almost entirely made up of households rather than businesses. That was also down from around one million the company signed up last year.

Kieron Stopforth, of Octopus Energy, warned that the rewards offered to consumers had fallen off “quite a steep cliff” this winter.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/12/15/net-zero-target-threatened-electricity-rationing-scheme/

An entirely misleading headline, implying households are responsible, whereas the truth of the matter appears later in the article and is the "lackluster", meaning "no", "take-up from most suppliers". 

ed110220

thevilla said:

Reed_Richards said:

I'm with Eon Next.  Unlike in previous years, they haven't approached me to sign-up.  is the problem perhaps a lack of participation by some energy companies this year?  

According to the octopus email on the subject even they were late to participate as they were holding out for a better deal.

"We'd been holding out for better value"

A misleading agitational piece from the Telegraph relating to the energy transition? Surely not!

Exiled_Tyke

Yep I lost all interest at. '

Net zero target at risk as households drop out of electricity rationing scheme

 It's worrying how many people continue to  read this can of rag and presumably taken in by it. 

silverwhistle

JKenH said:

Edit: sorry I had to break off. If there end up being 30 million EVs averaging 22 miles a day then at around 3 mpkWh at this time of year will add 220 GWh of demand. If just half charge overnight (say midnight to 7am) that adds over 15GW to demand.

Why would half charge every night? Even at your daily average (which is more than the current figures for the UK) you'd only need to charge about once a week. I charged to 100% last night at an average of less than 2p a unit, and to take it off 100% even used a bit of V2L this evening during the peak price period.

JKenH

silverwhistle said:

JKenH said:

Edit: sorry I had to break off. If there end up being 30 million EVs averaging 22 miles a day then at around 3 mpkWh at this time of year will add 220 GWh of demand. If just half charge overnight (say midnight to 7am) that adds over 15GW to demand.

Why would half charge every night? Even at your daily average (which is more than the current figures for the UK) you'd only need to charge about once a week. I charged to 100% last night at an average of less than 2p a unit, and to take it off 100% even used a bit of V2L this evening during the peak price period.

Sorry, if the basis of my calculation wasn’t very clear. I didn’t say drivers charge ‘every’ night as you suggest. My figure averaged out charging over the whole EV fleet, based on adding sufficient charge for 22 miles per day. I wasn’t suggesting each driver added 7 kWh overnight but as an average that is how much would need to be added across the fleet. Just as you do, most will add a larger quantity and then recharge when the battery gets low which might be several days or a week later or in some case the next day.

I assumed that as most drivers are keen to be able to exploit cheap charging rates they will charge overnight when the rates are cheap concentrating charging into the early hours (say midnight to 5am). Perhaps half charging overnight is an underestimate. 

Sorry, if my figure of 22 miles per day is incorrect. This article suggests it was a reasonable stab at an average EV mileage.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ev-mileages-increase-as-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-drive-fewer

michaels

Exiled_Tyke said:

Yep I lost all interest at. '

Net zero target at risk as households drop out of electricity rationing scheme

 It's worrying how many people continue to  read this can of rag and presumably taken in by it. 

uswitch belatedly getting on board:

Millions can get free electricity on one day regardless of supplier

thevilla

I came across this video

https://youtu.be/IxR8Atc2v-A?si=IRQPxMQjzVHkaMnY

Which describes the amount of electricity used to drill and refine oil. It's US focused but still partially relevant here.  When we're all using EVs we'll probably have plenty spare.

michaels

JKenH said:

silverwhistle said:

JKenH said:

Edit: sorry I had to break off. If there end up being 30 million EVs averaging 22 miles a day then at around 3 mpkWh at this time of year will add 220 GWh of demand. If just half charge overnight (say midnight to 7am) that adds over 15GW to demand.

Why would half charge every night? Even at your daily average (which is more than the current figures for the UK) you'd only need to charge about once a week. I charged to 100% last night at an average of less than 2p a unit, and to take it off 100% even used a bit of V2L this evening during the peak price period.

Sorry, if the basis of my calculation wasn’t very clear. I didn’t say drivers charge ‘every’ night as you suggest. My figure averaged out charging over the whole EV fleet, based on adding sufficient charge for 22 miles per day. I wasn’t suggesting each driver added 7 kWh overnight but as an average that is how much would need to be added across the fleet. Just as you do, most will add a larger quantity and then recharge when the battery gets low which might be several days or a week later or in some case the next day.

I assumed that as most drivers are keen to be able to exploit cheap charging rates they will charge overnight when the rates are cheap concentrating charging into the early hours (say midnight to 5am). Perhaps half charging overnight is an underestimate. 

Sorry, if my figure of 22 miles per day is incorrect. This article suggests it was a reasonable stab at an average EV mileage.

https://www.fleetnews.co.uk/news/ev-mileages-increase-as-petrol-and-diesel-vehicles-drive-fewer

Your calcs make sense to me, it would seem that that amount of electricity would basically bring usage 24/7 up to the same level as the current peak?