The Alternative Green Energy Thread

JKenH

Octopus to build own electricity pylons in challenge to National Grid

Household energy supplier Octopus is seeking to take on the National Grid by building its own electricity pylons, as frustration grows at the pace of the network’s expansion.

His [Greg Jackson’s] company argues it can build sections of the high-voltage transmission network – the backbone of the electricity system – more quickly and efficiently than the National Grid, helping to speed up the rollout of clean energy.

The shakeup would end the National Grid’s 30-year monopoly on transmission infrastructure in England and Wales, amid complaints from wind and solar farm developers that the Grid’s slow expansion is leaving them to wait a decade to connect to the system.

Octopus has been inspired by Indian energy company Sterlite Power, which has used cutting-edge computer software in India and Brazil to design power grid projects in a way that saves time and money.

It does this by mapping projects to avoid areas where it will be complicated to secure planning permission or where there will be large numbers of potential objectors, which prevents schemes from becoming bogged down by delays and opposition.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2024/01/25/octopus-build-own-electricity-pylons-national-grid/

JKenH

I was undecided whether to post this on the Investment thread or on here. I noticed that the Gresham House Energy Storage investment trust had fallen from around £1.10 at the start of January to 69p today. I was curious to find out what was going on and it seems the whole BESS industry is suffering from a significant fall in revenue down 67% y-o-y. 

A technical explanation is provided in this article but TBH it was a bit too technical for me. 

Battery storage revenue falls to lowest since 2020 in December

https://www.current-news.co.uk/battery-storage-revenue-falls-to-lowest-since-2020-in-december/

While we obviously need to see more BESS rolled out to complement our growing renewables generation capacity the economics don’t look promising for investors. 

QrizB

JKenH said:

A technical explanation is provided in this article but TBH it was a bit too technical for me.

It seems as though much of the income that BESS opertors receive comes from supplying stability services to the grid, preventing large voltage and frequency deviations in response to varying demand and supply and keeping the grid up.

In the past year, the cost of supplying those services has fallen (presumably because of more operators coming online, alternatives being available or a stronger grid being able to shunt power around). This means lower bills for consumers but less profit for BESS operators.

JKenH said:

While we obviously need to see more BESS rolled out to complement our growing renewables generation capacity the economics don’t look promising for investors.

Stability services are a "waste" inasmuch as they don't directly contribute to the process of getting energy from genertors to suppliers. They're a necessary evil. Spending less on them is a good thing, even if it does reduce the profitability of BESS. BESS can still make money from their supposed core business of temporal arbitrage - buy low, sell high.

JKenH

I wasn’t worried about climate change. Now I am

Scary video. 

https://youtu.be/4S9sDyooxf4?si=5JSCdU9DGFaAcV70

Magnitio

JKenH said:

I wasn’t worried about climate change. Now I am

Scary video. 

https://youtu.be/4S9sDyooxf4?si=5JSCdU9DGFaAcV70

It seems to be too big a problem for politicians to address and take the population along a journey of change. Biden has attempted to make some impact and is now so unpopular the US might end up going in the opposite direction with another term of Trump. Sunak will do whatever he thinks is going to get him some votes or helps his wife's shares. Most countries with oil, coal and gas will continue to sell it even if they clean up their own consumption as their economy depends on it. The changes we are making are far too slow and the outlook is pretty bleak. It used to be a concern about our children and grandchildren, but significant impacts are being felt now and accelerating.

shinytop

Magnitio said:

JKenH said:

I wasn’t worried about climate change. Now I am

Scary video. 

https://youtu.be/4S9sDyooxf4?si=5JSCdU9DGFaAcV70

It seems to be too big a problem for politicians to address and take the population along a journey of change. Biden has attempted to make some impact and is no so unpopular the US might end up going in the opposite direction with another term of Trump. Sunak will do whatever he thinks is going to get him some votes or helps his wife's shares. Most countries with oil, coal and gas will continue to sell it even if they clean up their own consumption as their economy depends on it. The changes we are making are far too slow and the outlook is pretty bleak. It used to be a concern about our children and grandchildren, but significant impacts are being felt now and accelerating.

Unfortunately populations will tend to do what's best for their own short term interests.  How many on here have ditched their cheap, polluting ff burning gas boilers for expensive, clean electric heat pumps?  Not many I'll bet.

Netexporter

 It used to be a concern about our children and grandchildren, but significant impacts are being felt now and accelerating.

I've been cleaning up my act for decades, mainly with an eye to my children's future, but even at the age of 70 it looks like I might not escape heat death/starvation/drowning.

JKenH

I mentioned on the EV discussion thread how many people may cite environmental reasons for switching to an electric car but still heat their homes and cook with gas. 

Why is this? Is it just because we don’t realise the impact of our gas cookers and CH boilers on the environment? Or maybe we do realise but gas is so cheap we aren’t prepared to switch to more expensive electric heating or cooking - or at least not until the government makes it financially worth our while. 

Often the comment is made that “I got rid of my ICE car because I care about my children and grandchildren” but it seems we don’t place the same importance on ditching our gas boilers and cookers even though they may be worse for the environment and climate change. 

Below are a couple of articles  

Overall, people estimated the carbon emissions from a gas boiler to be broadly the same as driving 30km per day in a new petrol or diesel car or eating 40kg of British beef. These represent the average annual car use and meat consumption in the UK respectively. In reality, an average boiler generates 3 times more carbon than the beef and 1.7 times more than the car.

https://www.nesta.org.uk/press-release/gas-boiler-emits-more-annual-co2-seven-transatlantic-flights/#:~:text=Home%20heating%20accounts%20for%2038,between%20London%20and%20New%20York

There are two ways gas stoves pollute your home. The first is the most obvious: when they’re in use. Burning gas creates heat, which causes nitrogen and oxygen to bond among the flames. They combine to create nitric oxide and nitrogen dioxide, collectively known as NOx, which can irritate the lungs. But that’s not the only compound to worry about. Cooking with gas can also emit carbon monoxide, particulate matter and even formaldehyde. Those all have various deleterious health impacts, and can affect the respiratory and cardiovascular systems.

There’s probably a more insidious form of pollution emanating from your stove. A growing body of research shows gas stoves emit toxic compounds even when not in use. Among the most worrisome is benzene, a carcinogen. A study by PSE Healthy Energy found benzene in 99% of samples it took in homes in California. Other chemicals discovered included xylene, toluene and ethylbenzene, which can also cause respiratory issues and may cause cancer as well.

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2023/jan/15/gas-stoves-pollution-alternatives

Exiled_Tyke

I guess you are right to a degree. Cars are a lot more visible than CH boilers and gas cookers won't be perceived as major contributors in comparison.  I think that there are other factors contributing to the difference in car conversion v's domestic gas appliances: 

1. It is culturally normally to change cars every few years. So the option to switch will naturally occur to many
2. The way cars are financed adds to the affordability of switching to a very expensive car
3. In comparison most won't anticipate buying a boiler or stove more than once (though in reality they will need changing at some point). There is little joy in the experience of upgrading a boiler or stove compared to a car. 

As for relative expense of gas and electric, these are becoming more comparable.  Use of ASHPs is the obvious leveller for heating.

 I don't think many appreciate how wasteful a gas stove is though.  I posted on here a few years back that I thought a gas stove top kettle would be much cheaper to use than an electric one.  When I compared them directly I found very little difference. The waste from the gas stove is immense and I guess only around 30% of the heat is used in the cooking, the rest goes into the room. Now I've changed to an induction hob I notice the lack of room warming  from stove top cooking. (Which is  very welcome in Summer). 

Netexporter

I don't think many appreciate how wasteful a gas stove is though.

I certainly did when I got an induction hob. Virtually no spilled heat when you hold your hand above a saucepan, plus you are not filling the kitchen with combustion products. Best of all, an induction hob takes about 5 seconds to clean.