How are most cars stolen?

AdrianC

Alexd52 wrote: »

But that doesn't tell you the order in which they are entered, so still a fair number of possible combinations

Nor does it tell you anything if the code has been changed (which is straightforward)...

The keypad in our ZX is unmarked after 85k. When we bought it, at 42k, it was on the default code - 1111. Since then, not one digit has been "1"...

(And, no, I don't expect anybody to be even remotely likely to nick it...)

mcpitman

EdGasketTheSecond wrote: »

You would when you found out how much it'd put up your insurance.

Negligible impact, with 20 odd years NCB protected on a £300 p/a premium. Certainly not enough to worry about.

Does that mean i have to start locking it now? :rotfl:

leviathan

motorguy wrote: »

And a Ghost cant easily be bypassed like the Peugeot one could.

From what limited public info is avilable, the Ghost sits on the CAN bus for the car.
They dont say which ones, but it's likely the powertrain. For example my car has 3 different CAN buses for different functions.
It might even need to sit on more than one to intercept key presses.

Then the guesing game starts. They claim not to have to cut anything, but it's sitting on the CAN bus so how are they wiring it?
Would love to see the installation guide but they wont share it.
Like Cliffords back in the day, the install is only as good as the installer and I used to see some shocking Clifford installs.

I'll go out on a total limb now and say if it's on the bus it's probably sending an engine off command. But if it were inline between the ECU and engine it would be intercepting all comamnds but that would mean cutting things. So it's probably sitting on the bus, monitoring and sending commands to stop the engine (emulating key off message).
If the box is just squatting, it can be found, it can be removed and then the car probably works as normal. The issue is finding it.

If the manufacturer has standard guidelines about where to fit the box on each make/model, that information will leak to the professional car thief over time.

AdrianC

leviathan wrote: »

They claim not to have to cut anything, but it's sitting on the CAN bus so how are they wiring it?

Unplug <CanBUS-connected unit>.
Plug Ghost in, plug <CanBUS-connected unit> into Ghost.

Think about a piggy-back dongle. There's a few standardised multiplug formats, and where they aren't suitable... they clearly have model-specific versions, looking at their website, as well as the generics.

If the box is just squatting, it can be found, it can be removed and then the car probably works as normal. The issue is finding it.

Exactly.

I'd lay odds that any decent model-familiar mechanic will find it in fairly short order. "What's this anonymous device plugged in to the bus? Haven't seen one of those here before."

If the manufacturer has standard guidelines about where to fit the box on each make/model, that information will leak to the professional car thief over time.

You can bet it won't take very long at all. In fact, you can bet it'd already be out there within a very short period of the first training session. So there's probably a few suggestions and "I'm sure you can figure your own locations out - here's our guidelines..."

leviathan

AdrianC wrote: »

Unplug <CanBUS-connected unit>.
Plug Ghost in, plug <CanBUS-connected unit> into Ghost.

Think about a piggy-back dongle. There's a few standardised multiplug formats, and where they aren't suitable... they clearly have model-specific versions, looking at their website, as well as the generics.

That was the bit I couldn't find. Do you have a link that shows it is a male/female adapter?
Makes sense - like a carkit.
But you are in that case altering the workings of the vehicle by introducing your own extra harness inline and interupting the comms path. Vs plugging into the end of the bus or tapping.

That's probably why it's not Thatcham approved, and potentially a grey area as far as the manufacturer is concerned.

AdrianC

leviathan wrote: »

That was the bit I couldn't find. Do you have a link that shows it is a male/female adapter?

No, it's just a semi-informed guess.

But you are in that case altering the workings of the vehicle by introducing your own extra harness inline and interupting the comms path. Vs plugging into the end of the bus or tapping.

But that's what CanBUS is for. It's just a network. You can plug anything anywhere and it behaves the same, because all the commands are transmitted everywhere. Same as you can unplug the network printer from over by the wall and plug it in the corridor next to the coffee machine, and it'll work the same.

That's probably why it's not Thatcham approved

<ouch> It's not? That puts a big dent in their marketing...

facade

leviathan wrote: »

That's probably why it's not Thatcham approved

They simply give Thatcham a bung, and they test and approve it then.



Thatcham approval is not a guarantee of effectiveness or quality.

Supersonos

Jackmydad wrote: »

it'd be garaged

Except, according to this very forum, that just gives theives more time to "work on" the car without being noticed and steal it anyway.

leviathan

AdrianC wrote: »

But you are in that case altering the workings of the vehicle by introducing your own extra harness inline and interupting the comms path. Vs plugging into the end of the bus or tapping.

But that's what CanBUS is for. It's just a network. You can plug anything anywhere and it behaves the same, because all the commands are transmitted everywhere. Same as you can unplug the network printer from over by the wall and plug it in the corridor next to the coffee machine, and it'll work the same.

Good analogy but....
If you hook up to the CANbus which is like plugging into a spare eth port on the switch (and enabling port monitoring since to be like a CAN network you'd really want a hub as a switch routes the traffic based on destination where as CAN doesnt exactly function that way as it's a flat topology and all on the bus get all messages) that's one thing, but removing the connectors from a device and inserting a new device would be like putting your own hub between the printer and the socket on the wall.

Now it's been my experience that IT depts are not overly happy when you suggest doing such things - running equipment insde their domain which they haven't specified - much like the car manufacturer objected to a not tested part sitting betwen the ECU and engine.

However IT are more accepting of you pluging into the network in a spare port and turning on port monitoring which would be like jacking into the end of the CANbus on a spare connector (funnily enough often in the OBD2 port on some of the spare pins not used for OBD2 functions but other servicing such as manufacturer specific comms).

[Deleted User]

leviathan wrote: »

If the manufacturer has standard guidelines about where to fit the box on each make/model, that information will leak to the professional car thief over time.

A DIY anti-theft device has the advantage that nobody has any information about what it is, where it is, or how it works.