LPS Parking Charge Notice at Warwick Hospital

splinternet

Hi - been through some threads but they don't seem to describe this situation. Apologies if I missed any.

Driver was running late for appointment at Warwick Hospital mainly due to queuing for 15 minutes to get into the main car park and hardly moving. Appointment was in severe danger of being missed which would have cost the NHS £128 according to the appointment letter. Driver found an alternative, a smaller one about which the only good thing was that there was no queue. However, there also weren't any spaces in this one either, and already cars had been parked outside the marked bays etc.... Driver found a large area where the car could be easily parked with no obstruction to cars nearby (they were quite some distance away) unless there was a Winnebago or a bus involved. The only problem was that this was a yellow-hatched area, though the only thing being obstructed was the grit storage box for when it's icy, but as the temperature was well above zero, the driver assumed no-one wouldn't need access to it.

Driver made it to the appointment with 5 minutes to spare. Upon leaving after just over an hour, parking ticket was paid (£3.10!) but nice surprise awaiting in the form of Parking Charge Notice on windscreen.

There is no indication in the wording of the PCN that any photographic evidence was taken. But Driver took photographs showing how far away from other vehicles the car was parked. Can this be challenged or must someone (driver or keeper) stump up £85 (or £50 within 14 days)?

Le_Kirk

Go to PALS at the hospital. Take a copy of the NHS parking principles with you.

splinternet

OK thanks. Is writing to PALS OK, and including some photos backing up that I was causing no obstacle?

splinternet

So PALS say they are getting in touch with LPS to get their photographic evidence. However, today is now 14 days since the PCN was issued, so the "discount payment" period has ended. As PALS know it was me who parked there, chances are they will have passed this snippet to LPS, so if they go to DVLA they will see I'm the RK. Regardless of whether or not PALS are successful in getting LPS to cancel the PCN, and based largely on what I've read elsewhere in this site, I plan to simply ignore anything I may or may not get sent by LPS even if it's threatening to send bailiffs in etc... Is this sound advice?

Redx

No it's not , you should read and digest the newbies faq sticky thread

I hope you are not saying that PALS would breach the DPA known as GDPR by passing on hearsay as to who the driver might be, they are not witnesses and should not pass on unknown information , conjecture is not fact

An occupant of the vehicle has made a complaint , they know this , but to assume that the complainant was the driver is a big leap

If LPS wish to know who the Keeper is , they must purchase this information from the DVLA , using Kadoe

Hopefully LPS will cancel his they know PALS is involved

fisherjim

splinternet wrote: »

even if it's threatening to send bailiffs in etc...

This will not happen unless it goes to court, you lose, and refuse to pay, and debt collector letters are not bailiff letters.


You should follow Redx always sound advice but read the Newbies thread which explains everything better than trawling through loads of non connected threads or posts.

splinternet

So basically PALS are not interested. They asked LPS for, and received, photographs of the car which indeed shows it is park on a yellow hatched area. The guy at PALS said it was blocking wheelchair access, however there are no signs I recall nor painting on the ground saying "don't park here because of wheelchair access". So I'm looking at the NEWBIES template response, but before entering any appeal online, I’d like to share/clarify a few points, if I may.

The reverse of the PCN states:

LATE PAYMENTS
Failure to pay …within 28 days will result in …obtaining registration details from DVLA and a formal demand being sent to the vehicle owner

Should I keep shtum and await this? However, there’s another section:

APPEALS
You have the choice to pay or appeal, you cannot do both. If you wish to appeal, you must do so in writing within 28 days

If I do appeal, who am I appealing as – the driver or the RK? At this stage, LPS won’t know the RK’s details. And so what if I don’t appeal within 28 days? The LATE PAYMENT section will then be initiated, they will get the RK’s details and send me a formal demand – but is it then too late to lodge an appeal?

When I had a PCN from APCOA earlier this year (post 6017115) I had 28 days from receipt of the PCN to appeal (as RK, because they had already gone to the DVLA). So is this the equivalent of (1) the 28 days that LPS is quoting, this being the number of days since issue of the windscreen PCN, or (2) 28 days since eventually writing to me as the RK? I don’t want to time-out on being able to appeal.

Also, just to throw something else into the mix, PALS wrote to me by email with the LPS photos on day 11; however, having received nothing, I contacted them again today and discovered they had got my email address wrong. Today is 22 days, so 11 days have been lost, therefore if your advice is to appeal within 28 days then I’d better get a move on.

Redx

There is no database of vehicles owners , only registered keepers , so sounds like they have failed POFA or may do with the postal ntk

Stay as Keeper if it's a postal notice and use the blue text template from the newbies faq sticky thread near the top of the forum post 1 and appeal asap

If it's a windscreen notice , appeal on day 26 following the incident , again as keeper with that template

splinternet

I have today issued by email the following appeal, suitably redacted for this forum:

Re: PCN xxxxxxx / vehicle reg. xxxxxxxx

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner, specifically Mr xxxxxxxxxx (CEO of xxxxxxxxxxx NHS Foundation Trust) and Mr xxxxxxxxx (General Manager Hotel Services at xxxxxxxxxxxxxx NHS Foundation Trust)) and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, including an actual photograph of any signage you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

my name (keeper of the vehicle)
my address

Just to reiterate the salient points here, the PCN was issued in violation of Parking in a No Parking area, so it was nothing to do with overstaying time (you can park as long as you like, you have to present your ticket to a machine and pay the appropriate fee in order to exit the car park). The no parking area was painted with yellow hatching - though very faded. The car was parked such that in the view of the driver it was not causing any obstruction to cars or pedestrians (I have my own photos to corroborate this); however, PALS declared it was obstructing wheelchair access as the front was parked a few inches across a lower section of pavement for such access - the official photos taken as evidence do not show this. As far as I recall, and my own photos verify this, there was no signage, nor indications painted on the ground, forbidding parking on the grounds of wheelchair access.

The_Deep

Have you read this?

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles/nhs-patient-visitor-and-staff-car-parking-principles

Have they fully complied? If not they are likely to struggle if this gets to court.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP after the election, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and in some cases, cancellation.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT]

Half_way

You said that you got in touch with PALs, but what did you say?
Did you do soem research before hand, referencing the NHs pakring pronciples as linked toby the deep, in the post above?