Civil Enforcement Ltd restaurant parking fine

xelania

Hi,

I recently got an invoice through from Civil Enforcement Ltd. I was eating out at a restaurant, and all the signs in the car park either said "free parking for 60 minutes thereinafter permit holders only" or "free parking for [restaurant name] customers only". Because I was a restaurant customer (I have the receipt for proof), I assumed that the second sign applied to me and that I was fine to park. However, I later found out that I had to register my licence plate number inside the restaurant in order to be able to use the car park for the duration of my meal (over 60 minutes) for free. I've appealed saying that Civil Enforcement's signs were unclear thus inadequate, as they made no reference to the need to register my licence plate - only signs inside the restaurant which at the time weren't visible did. I'm at the POPLA stage and have submitted the main part of my appeal, however I now have an opportunity to respond to Civil Enforcement Ltd's case before the actual POPLA assessment is done. I'm very worried that I'm not going to win, given the lengthy response Civil Enforcement Ltd has sent in to POPLA. Any suggestions as to something I could add to my final response to Civil Enforcement?

Thank you!

Redx

Your rebuttal for Popla is limited to 2000 characters (not words) and can only address their evidence in their evidence pack

Look for anything that supports your case and anything they have failed on , looking for POFA non compliance , no landowner authority , poor signage etc

Read recent 2919 Popla rebuttals on here to get some help on this , read and plagiarise

More importantly , you should have complained about it to the restaurant weeks ago and insisted on a cancellation as a paying customer , they should have alerted you to the iPad for registering your VRM when you went in , many pubs and restaurants now use logins via iPads to authorise your parking , so always check in future

Try to get it cancelled by them asap , complain , complain , this should have been done when the NTK arrived in the post , always complain to the landowner or retailer first

xelania

Okay thank you! Is the restaurant able to cancel it? When I went in and spoke to them they seemed very nice and wrote me a lengthy letter supporting my appeal, but I didn't know it was possible for them to get it cancelled. How exactly would that work?

KeithP

xelania wrote: »

Okay thank you! Is the restaurant able to cancel it? When I went in and spoke to them they seemed very nice and wrote me a lengthy letter supporting my appeal, but I didn't know it was possible for them to get it cancelled. How exactly would that work?

It works because they employed the parking company.

The restaurant is, or should be, in control of their subcontractor - the parking company.

Umkomaas

I didn't know it was possible for them to get it cancelled. How exactly would that work?

If they contracted CEL to 'manage' the car park, then absolutely they will have the capacity to cancel the ticket.

But there in lies the conundrum.

xelania

That's the thing, Civil Enforcement's involvement is relatively new and the restaurant managers seemed to say that they have no control over the car park, suggesting that perhaps it is their own landlord who does. Aside from that, does my general argument seem okay?

KeithP

xelania wrote: »

That's the thing, Civil Enforcement's involvement is relatively new and the restaurant managers seemed to say that they have no control over the car park, suggesting that perhaps it is their own landlord who does. Aside from that, does my general argument seem okay?

So the restaurant has "no control over the car park".

That means one of three things:

• they have a rubbish contract with their agent - CEL, or
• they have a rubbish contract with their landlord who hired CEL, or
• they are just saying that for an easy life.

Point out to the restaurant that you and your family and friends will be unlikely to eat there again now that you have found out that each visit comes with a £100 surcharge.

Umkomaas

xelania wrote: »

That's the thing, Civil Enforcement's involvement is relatively new and the restaurant managers seemed to say that they have no control over the car park, suggesting that perhaps it is their own landlord who does. Aside from that, does my general argument seem okay?

Well you've hit some of the relevant issues that can win POPLA appeals. We haven't seen your actual POPLA appeal, so don't know the detail of what you've submitted. Even if we did, POPLA is so much more unpredictable these days, it would take a fool to second guess them.

Try to find out who the actual landowner is. Ask the local council who pays the non-domestic rate on it.

Umkomaas

Point out to the restaurant that you and your family and friends will be unlikely to visit again now that you have found out that each visit comes with a £100 surcharge.

Also tell them that it's only sensible for you to forewarn any future customers of the risk they take in dining there. Tell them to watch their TripAdvisor, Facebook and Twitter feeds for your inputs.

Tell them that this could cost them significantly more than it might ever cost you!

xelania

Really appreciate the feedback guys. Am i best contacting the restaurant over the phone, by email or in person?

Redx

As above , we haven't seen your popla appeal , or the CEL evidence pack

I suspect that you haven't read the BPA Cop , which has a special mention regarding new signs and bedding in periods etc

You were a paying customer

Cel will state that the driver failed to find , read and follow the new signs , hence why a pc was issued

All this Poirot stuff should have been done weeks ago , not at the last minute

I have been to a few restaurants and pubs this year where similar arrangements have been brought in , usually by the parent company or landowner , so Beefeater or Wetherspoons or Miller and Carter etc

All of them had plenty of signs on the way in , near the bar etc , to sign in using the iPad provided , plus the staff have asked if we have checked in too

In future , wherever you park , check for signs and comply , because these companies now invest almost everywhere that a vehicle will fit , hence why this forum is so busy

You have 7 days to put in that rebuttal , so phone them , call in , do whatever it takes , so all of them , starting with an email tonight , then phone them , tell them to read the email , complain in person if you have to