Gladstones LBC (due imminently)

kugelblitzz

Good evening folks,

Back in October 2018 I got a PCN at my University and subsequently ignored all of the letters under the advice of many friends who had successfully done the same.

Being a mature, part-time student I was by default granted free access from 17:00 to attend the evening lectures. This was my fifth and final year, and I had to attend an important one-off dissertation meeting prior to 17:00 (around 15:30) with my lecturer and just hoped for the best. I didn't realise this was an ANPR system and thus received the PCN automatically.

I have been on holiday for two weeks and just came back to the LBC from Gladstones that was sent on 16th October, resulting in only 9 days remaining at the time of writing. I have got both templates ready to send to the Client (IPC registered) and Gladstones, but not sure if it is now too late in the day.

I have also considered contacting the facilities team at the University to submit a very late appeal, this seems to be encouraged in the Newbies post but I'm just looking for affirmation that there are no other considerations that I have missed in my reading of the existing posts. Sadly I don't see £30k worth of student debt being enough to draw some compassion out of these people!

For info, the charge is now £140 (originally £40). I am submitting this post a little prematurely relative to the truck load of information to get through before posting, purely because of the small amount of time I have left.

Cheers.

Le_Kirk

Complaint (rather than an appeal) to the landowner (in this case the Uni) is always step 1.

kugelblitzz

Le_Kirk wrote: »

Complaint (rather than an appeal) to the landowner (in this case the Uni) is always step 1.

Thanks Le_Kirk, I will go ahead with writing a complaint to them as I infer from this that it's not too late. I note that the complaint needs to be 'from the heart' which seems to suggest that there is admission, rather than no admission.

I'm thinking:
- Explain that I was a student
- Explain the particular circumstances around why it happened, i.e importance of the meeting with the lecturer and working a demanding full time job meant I was running late?
- Show my disdain at the bitter end to an otherwise great student experience
- Complain that my access post 17:00 was free anyway and I was not there for long prior to that

Too much? Too little?

Umkomaas

You've missed out a very important bit of information.

Which parking company is involved?

kugelblitzz

Hi Umkomaas, this was missed because I am not sure; the previous letters are no longer accessible and I cannot find any information online. I thought the Uni owned its own parking to be honest.

Here is a snippet from the Terms & Conditions:

"The PCN will be issued by nominated University Staff. All follow up
action, including payment collection and appeal management will be
undertaken by the University and the University’s nominated debt
recovery contractor, details of which can be found on the PCN. Please
note if a PCC is not paid on time the User may incur further fees
relating to collection of that debt."

"The University of xxxxx is a member of the Independent Parking Committee (IPC) and follow the IPC/DVLA agreed code of practice."

Omitted the Uni name just in case I should.

Edit: I just found an identical example of the PCN on another site, am I ok to provide a link to it? It lists the Uni so just waiting to see if that is a problem or not.

beamerguy

kugelblitzz wrote: »

Hi Umkomaas, this was missed because I am not sure; the previous letters are no longer accessible and I cannot find any information online. I thought the Uni owned its own parking to be honest.

Here is a snippet from the Terms & Conditions:

"The PCN will be issued by nominated University Staff. All follow up
action, including payment collection and appeal management will be
undertaken by the University and the University’s nominated debt
recovery contractor, details of which can be found on the PCN. Please
note if a PCC is not paid on time the User may incur further fees
relating to collection of that debt."

"The University of xxxxx is a member of the Independent Parking Committee (IPC) and follow the IPC/DVLA agreed code of practice."

Omitted the Uni name just in case I should.

Edit: I just found an identical example of the PCN on another site, am I ok to provide a link to it? It lists the Uni so just waiting to see if that is a problem or not.

I see no reason not to name the Uni ?

The PCN, does it say the Uni name ? What is the name of the issuer ?

They proudly say they are members of the IPC ? don't they realise that the IPC is scam set up by the incompetent Gladstones

So they think that they should follow the IPC CoP .. don't they understand that this code is only for IPC members and not the general public.

Don't they understand that POFA2012, the law, applies when it comes to how much they can claim for ?

Don't they understand the Beavis case ruling ..
198. ''...The charge has to be and is set at a level which enables the managers to recover the costs of operating the scheme...''

Don't they understand that if this goes to court, there is a ruling of double recovery .... not allowed.

If they don't understand this, they probably need to pay back all the money they scammed from people ..... could be a lot ?

READ ABOUT ABUSE OF PROCESS
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/6014081/abuse-of-process-district-judge-tells-bwlegal

Best to talk to whoever has the Uni's interests at heart

kugelblitzz

Thanks beamerguy,

In that case here is the link to what I found, it's the same letter I received last year: hxxp://pepipoo.com/forums/lofiversion/index.php/t114131.html

The campus is pretty big, and as the poster in that thread says there is no evidence of the car actually being parked; only entering and exiting.

I spent 32 hours on flights yesterday so I'm suffering a bit of jet lag, will check all of this information again in the morning once rested and then make some progress.

Appreciate all your comments thus far.

kugelblitzz

Ok so, this may be useless or it may completely miss the point of what I'm trying to achieve.

Here is my complaint to the University, requesting them to also stand down their solicitors:

---

"Dear Sir or Madam,

I am writing to you in relation to a parking charge notice registered to my name, dated 24/10/2018.

The PCN Number is XXXXXXXXX, located at the XXXXXXXX. I would like to raise a number of points on this matter as I do not agree that the charge, now totalling £140, is fair or just.

Having been a mature, part-time student of the University for 5 years alongside an extraordinarily demanding job, you can imagine the bitter taste this charge leaves after an otherwise positive student experience. I have parked in the Orange zone during term time, on a weekly basis for several years to attend my lectures on an evening, to which your records of my vehicle registration will validate.

As I am sure you will appreciate, final year students and lecturers/supervisors alike have an overwhelming schedule where time is a limited resource. As my supervisor only had an earlier meeting available due to high demand, I ensured I attended as this was a requirement to formalise my dissertation plan and meet the expected deadline. I recall that this time was approaching 16:00, around an hour from when I would usually be parked.

The University car parks are not in any way busy at this time, and therefore I heavily dispute any loss of earnings claims as a result of a vehicle being parked in an almost empty car park. I have to expect that you must fundamentally agree that £80 for approximately 1 hour of parking is beyond reasonable, and is in no way representative of any surrounding car parks for this length of time, and indeed this time of day. You will also be aware that there is no photographic evidence of the car being parked, only entering and exiting the campus.

The claim also states that there is an additional, yet unenforceable 'nominal' contribution to you of £60, bringing the total to £140. You have provided no adequate breakdown of these costs, and I am shocked and dismayed to find that you will be pursuing legal proceedings against me.

Given I was out of the country when your solicitors letter arrived, I am left with only 8 days to defend myself and raise a dispute. With respect, I request that you stand down your solicitors immediately and respond to the following questions.

Are you aware:

- of the conflict of interest between IPC and Gladstones?
- that the IPC CoP is only for IPC members, and not the general public?
- that POFA2012, the law, applies with regards to how much you can attempt to claim?
- the Beavis case ruling: 198. ''...The charge has to be and is set at a level which enables the managers to recover the costs of operating the scheme...''?
- that if this does progress to the courts, the ruling of double recovery is not allowed?

I am very disappointed that the University of Leeds is tarnishing its reputation by being a member of IPC, despite the extreme, growing negative stigma and predatory nature towards defendants for wholly unreasonable claims.

With regret, should you wish to pursue this matter further to the courts, I am afraid any positive recommendation from myself to friends, family, or associates looking for prospective University places will instantly cease.

I refer you further to the ABUSE OF PROCESS recognised in courts throughout the country, where a rapidly increasing number of cases are now being declined on the basis of disproportionate and disingenuous claims."

---

At the end of my complaint I will also be including the abuse of process wording from Coupon-Mad, I guess I just add in 1.0, 1.1, 1.2 etc for paragraph numbers? I really have no idea about the format of legal documentation so just making assumptions. Any reason the paragraph numbers are not included by default in that post as that seems to be a recurring mistake/pain-point?

Anyhow, please let me know if this will suffice and if I should also send anything to Gladstones in the meantime. I have 8 days until court letters will be coming so I'd rather ask, get shouted at and apologise later!

Cheers.

Coupon-mad

Looks good and from the heart, given that the Uni of Leeds are IPC members (nasty Trade Body, as you have said) and should know better than to do this to students.

But I would get rid of this as it makes no sense, and not add my wording to your complaint:

I refer you further to the ABUSE OF PROCESS recognised in courts throughout the country, where a rapidly increasing number of cases are now being declined on the basis of disproportionate and disingenuous claims."

Abuse of process does not have the meaning you think it does; it covers a wealth of court process abuse and is not 'recognised' as another way of talking about parking firms adding sixty quid.

Sorry I will try to explain what I mean as new posters keep getting over excited about what they just call 'abuse of process' thinking its a defence point and that Judges will know what they mean just by that phrase alone (they will not).

What I mean is this:

Adding sixty quid is (arguably) ONE EXAMPLE (of many) of an 'abuse of process' in general legal terms.

But 'abuse of process' is not a descriptor that means 'adding sixty quid' and that you can bandy about that phrase in capitals as if it makes sense on its own.

It makes it clear that Defendants don't know what they are saying, IMHO, which is not the impression you want to give in such a complaint.

kugelblitzz

Many thanks for your response and clarification Coupon-mad, I have taken your advice and sent the complaint without the additional comments that will not be of any value at this stage.

I will update here if/when a response is received, but their auto-response states that they may take up to 14 days to respond. I will not wait long until I send a chaser, and will look to call them in a few days if a response has still not been received.

Here's hoping this all moves quickly, and positively.

kugelblitzz

Well, it did not go as hoped. The University responded saying the opportunity for appeal has passed and that I must now communicate directly with Gladstones. I have 4 days left until the court letters start appearing so I guess it's time to get my defence prepared.

So, as far as I understand it:

1. Email the SAR to the Uni, ask to forward to DPO. They claim that costs have been incurred by the Uni, should I ask for a full breakdown?

2. Email Gladstones to request restriction of data processing:

"Please note that I have sent your client a SAR, thus requiring a restriction of data processing and the case should now be put 'on hold'.

Having been out of the country for two weeks, I was not in a position to accept nor open the communication that you sent me and consequently opened this letter when I arrived home.

My address for service is XXXXXX."

3. Expect refusal, but action the MCOL & AOS in the meantime.