Wrong Reg, Submitted appeal via IAS - Completely lost as to what to do? - Court Letter Received

TechMonkey

Firstly I really do appologise, I have tried reading and following the Newbies thread and other advice on this forum, but it is completely consuing me, so I would greatly appreciate any advice you can give.

Briefly, I parked in a private car park on 29.08.19, I paid for my parking but chose the wrong reg in the RinGo app. I have receipts to prove I paid for the parking.

I run my own business and lease my car.

I received an email from the company I lease the car through on the 24.09.19 stating that they had received a "parking fine or penalty charge notice" for the vehicle I lease from them and they have passed on my details to issuer and I am responsible for the fine.

I then received a letter from "Vehicle Control Services Ltd" (VCP) on 07.10.19 asking me to pay £100 withing 21 days or file an appeal via myparkingcharge.co.uk within 14 days.

I did log on to their site and filed an appeal and included a copy of a my receipt and explained I had simply selected the wrong Reg no as I was in a hurry. I assumed (stupidly) that they would see I had paid their fee and that the fine was unjustified.

I was then sent an email from Excel Parking Services Limited on 24.10.19 stating that they did not accept my appeal as I enterred in to a contract, part of which included agreeing to use the correct VRN for the vehicle being parked. I was told to pay the £100 charge or appeal to IAS within 21 days.

I did then file the complaint with the IAS (I know I should have come and read here first, but I didnt know to do that) and it has now had several backwards and forwards between my and VPC/Excel/MyParkingServices and I am completely out of my depth.

Only after all this did I come here and start reading and now I am completely lost, baffled and worried.

I did some reading on the internet and found a case Parking Eye vs Heggie in which the judge stated that as the operator did not suffer any loss due to the contravention then the charges were dropped, but the operator is claiming the a case named "Parking Eye vs Beavis established the principle that parking operators do not need to demonstrate loss in order for a Parking Charge to be legitimate so long as the charge is not excessive".

Help me MSE you're my only hope? What do I do next?

The_Deep

I received an email from the company I lease the car through on the 24.09.19 stating that they had received a "parking fine or penalty charge notice"

It is neither, what they received was a speculative invoice from a former clamper for damages for the harm they allege they suffered when you did what you did, You owe them nothing unless a judge so orders it.

PE v Beavis is totally different, it was for an overstay in a free car park. Many judges think that wrong WRN entry is a trifling matter, and will dismiss the claim as de minimis.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_minimis

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

TechMonkey

Thanks for the fast response Deep, so whats my next course of action, the IAS says it is waiting for my response to operators last comments? Do I reply, if so what should my argument be at this stage?

I found this mentioned on another thread regarding the exact same car park in which someone won against Excel i court:

"the Beavis case relates to private parking and was based on commercial justification. This event occurred within a retail park with the offer of free parking for a limited period. As the driver overstayed their time it was deemed this could affect the footfall to the retail units (Commercial justification) .. therefore the parking charge was necessary to deter others from overstaying and to also manage the car park, This is entirely different to a private parking company who enforce parking charges with no retail units involved"

The_Deep

Your next steps are explained in the stickies/FAQs, if this confuses yo keep reading it until it makes sense.


As you have found, they are misinterpreting the Beavis case.

Coupon-mad

TechMonkey wrote: »

I did some reading on the internet and found a case Parking Eye vs Heggie in which the judge stated that as the operator did not suffer any loss due to the contravention then the charges were dropped, but the operator is claiming the a case named "Parking Eye vs Beavis established the principle that parking operators do not need to demonstrate loss in order for a Parking Charge to be legitimate so long as the charge is not excessive".

The above is an example of how not to do internet research; they are right and your case law is several years out of date. The Beavis case is so well known you could have found that out in maybe half an hour on this forum, just by reading the NEWBIES sticky thread.

You need to check the DATES of posts you stumble across and not even read old stuff. Always click to the current thread list, if taken to a forum by Google results.

This is what you do next and how these cases are won:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76409275#Comment_76409275

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76456292#Comment_76456292

Come back when you get the claim, and no need to tell us when you lose at IAS as that is 99.9% inevitable and a complete waste of your time. The NEWBIES thread tells people not to do this.

Please no updates (until court stage) unless the IAS surprise us!!

And please read the NEWBIES thread post #2 about court stage. No CCJ risk.

TechMonkey

Coupon-mad said:

Please no updates (until court stage) unless the IAS surprise us!!

@Coupon-mad - So no surprises the IAS upheld the claim.  
Today I received my Court Claim Form asking how I wish to proceed.
1) If you admit all the amount claimed and you want time to pay - Complete Admission Form
2) If you admit part of the amount claimed - Completed the Admission Form and Defence Form
3) If you dispute the whole claim or wish to make a counter claim against the claimant - The Defence Form
4) If you need 28 days (rather than 14) fromt he dat of service to prepare your defence, or with to contest the court's jurisdiction -The acknowledgement of service.
So I am assuming option 3 or 4 is my way forward however I will await your, very much, appreciated experienced response.

Coupon-mad

OK, but no need to tell us the 'options' as you are not filling any forms in.

This is fully covered in the NEWBIES thread and on every one of the court defence threads you could have read in the meantime, to prepare!  We have new ones every day, including today.

All we would want is to know the issue date of the N1 form, so we can give you dates/directions.  

We won't be repeating what's already in the NEWBIES thread, so go there now (second post of it).

D_P_Dance

Nine times out of ten these tickets are scams, so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra costs and work, and has been known to get the charge cancelled.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.

TechMonkey

Coupon-mad said:

OK, but no need to tell us the 'options' as you are not filling any forms in.

This is fully covered in the NEWBIES thread and on every one of the court defence threads you could have read in the meantime, to prepare!  We have new ones every day, including today.

All we would want is to know the issue date of the N1 form, so we can give you dates/directions.  

We won't be repeating what's already in the NEWBIES thread, so go there now (second post of it).

Apologies, was just trying to give as much information as possible.
On my way to the thread again now, I did read it at the time, but will refresh.
NA Issue date is 19.02.2020

KeithP

Issue date is 19.02.2020

With a Claim Issue Date of 19th February, you have until Monday 9th March to file an Acknowledgement of Service. If possible, do not file an AoS before 24th February, but otherwise there is nothing to be gained by delaying it. To file an AoS, follow the guidance offered in a Dropbox file linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES FAQ sticky thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou 

About ten minutes work - no thinking required.

Having filed an AoS, you have until 4pm on Monday 23th March 2020 to file your Defence.

That's over a month away. Plenty of time to produce a Defence, but please don't leave it to the last minute.

When you are happy with the content, your Defence could be filed via email as suggested here:

1. Print your Defence.
   
2. Sign it and date it.
   
3. Scan the signed document back in and save it as a pdf.
   
4. Send that pdf as an email attachment to CCBCAQ@Justice.gov.uk
5. Just put the claim number and the word Defence in the email title, and in the body of the email something like 'Please find my Defence attached'.
   
6. No need to do anything on MCOL, but do check it after a few days to see if the Claim is marked "defence received". If not, chase the CCBC until it is.
   
   After filing your Defence, there is more to do...
   
   
7. Do not be surprised to receive an early copy of the Claimant's Directions Questionnaire. Nothing of interest there. Just file it.
   
8. Wait for your own Directions Questionnaire from the CCBC, or download one from the internet - https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/form-n180-directions-questionnaire-small-claims-track , and then complete it as described by bargepole in his 'what happens when' post linked from post #2 of the NEWBIES thread - https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/4816822/newbies-private-parking-ticket-old-or-new-read-these-faqs-first-thankyou"]
   
9. The completed DQ should be returned by email to the CCBC to the same address and in the same way as your Defence was filed earlier.
   
10. Send a copy of your completed DQ to the Claimant - to their address on your Claim Form.

TechMonkey

Thank you all so much for the reponses, I have done the SAR and AOS as advised and am now drafting my defence.

However the link suggested to follow in the NEWBIES thread leads to a dead end, the page just has a "Whoops this page doesnt exist" - I have done searching but not turning up any idencitcal matches for defence posts

Here is a defence I suggested for a case where a RingGo app carried forward a default VRN for the wrong car, so that the driver was not at fault and the inaccuracy came from the PPC's app:

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/74836178#Comment_74836178