Parking Penalty Notice in private car park - Help requested

relatable

Hello, I am new here and I would like some help regarding a parking [STRIKE]fine[/STRIKE] penalty notice.

I have read the NEWBIES thread, but I couldn't find the answer I was looking for.

I got fined for parking in a private car park, which is the car park to the community I live, I know. My own parking spot as well. The permit was not on my screen and so they fined me for that.

The company who issued the PCN is CPM.

Now, admittedly, I had appealed the very same day and send them a photo of my permit and my details as well, this was before I knew about this forum and so I have a feeling I might have screwed myself over and therefore I am making this threat. The other problem is that I acknowledged the signs and that the permit had simply fallen off the dash, so essentially admitting guilt.

The rejected my appeal and are asking me to pay the fine. The appeal was rejected on Oct 29th, about 30 days after my appeal. They're telling me I need to pay £60 after 14 days from the date of the letter, which is dated 30th October 2019 or otherwise I am expected to pay them £100. Ridiculous for parking in your own space!

My question is, what are my options here? The Newbies thread suggest contacting the landowner, so this would be the property management company who maintains the properties and ask them to look into it, but they're usually slow with responding.

Another facet to consider is that I know they do not check regularly. I've had my car parked without my permit on display for a number of days in the past and never received anything. And I know commuters park their cars there, because we have Visitor's Permits and borrow them from some of the residents and this I had complained about the the property management company and nothing is being done about it.

Any advise is greatly appreciated. If you need to know details, please ask.

pogofish

Clearly, you have not read the Newbies Sticky..!

Try again.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] I got fined for parking in a private car park, [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]It is not a fine, it is an invoice from an ex- clamper for damages for the harm they allege they suffered when you did what you did. We call it a scam. Pay them not one penny unless a judge so orders it.[/FONT]

Why do you need to show a permit? What does your lease/AST say about the need to show a permit? If it is silent non the matter it will almost certainly take primacy over the self-serving T&Cs of some scammer, read this

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

Nine [FONT=Times New Roman, serif] times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra cost and work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT][/FONT][/FONT]

relatable

pogofish wrote: »

Clearly, you have not read the Newbies Sticky..!

Try again.

Can you point me to the correct paragraph? It's a genuine question, as I read through the entire post and couldn't find an answer to my question. Honestly!

relatable

The_Deep wrote: »

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] I got fined for parking in a private car park, [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]It is not a fine, it is an invoice from an ex- clamper for damages for the harm they allege they suffered when you did what you did. We call it a scam. Pay them not one penny unless a judge so orders it.[/FONT]

Why do you need to show a permit? What does your lease/AST say about the need to show a permit? If it is silent non the matter it will almost certainly take primacy over the self-serving T&Cs of some scammer, read this

Nine [FONT=Times New Roman, serif] times out of ten these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra cost and work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

Thanks for the links, I will have a read through them. Regarding the AST, the following is stated:

2.19. Car Parking
2.19.1. To park private vehicle(s) only at the property.
2.19.2. To park in the space allocated to the property, if one forms part of the tenancy.
2.19.3. To park in the garage or the driveway to the property if applicable.
2.19.4. To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and
cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
2.19.5. To remove all vehicles belonging to the tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the
tenancy.
2.19.6. Not to park any vehicle at the property which is not in roadworthy condition and fully taxed.

So nothing regarding a permit, but if we were to leave it does state:

2.15.4. To hand back all and any additional keys together with all original keys and any security
devices and or parking permits supplied to the property at no cost to the landlord.

So the T&Cs are likely from "parking regulators" and there's signage on some of the walls indicating that this must be displayed.

The_Deep

Your lease/AST appears to trump that of the scammer. Properly defended you would almost certainly win a "breach of contract" claim as they can offer you nothing you do not already have, read this,

https://www.tutor2u.net/law/reference/the-elements-of-a-contract

Fruitcake

relatable wrote: »

Can you point me to the correct paragraph? It's a genuine question, as I read through the entire post and couldn't find an answer to my question. Honestly!

It is not a fine, so please do not call it that. It may not be important at this stage but it will be if this gets to court, and will in any case pee the regulars off as you have already discovered.

relatable wrote: »

Thanks for the links, I will have a read through them. Regarding the AST, the following is stated:

2.19. Car Parking
2.19.1. To park private vehicle(s) only at the property.
2.19.2. To park in the space allocated to the property, if one forms part of the tenancy.
2.19.3. To park in the garage or the driveway to the property if applicable.
2.19.4. To keep any garage, driveway, or parking space free of oil and to pay for the removal and
cleaning of any spillage caused by a vehicle of the tenant, his family, contractors or visitors.
2.19.5. To remove all vehicles belonging to the tenant, his family or visitors at the end of the
tenancy.
2.19.6. Not to park any vehicle at the property which is not in roadworthy condition and fully taxed.

So nothing regarding a permit, but if we were to leave it does state:

2.15.4. To hand back all and any additional keys together with all original keys and any security
devices and or parking permits supplied to the property at no cost to the landlord.

So the T&Cs are likely from "parking regulators" and there's signage on some of the walls indicating that this must be displayed.

There are no parking regulators, at least not yet.

Have you told us the name of the parking scammers yet? I've only skim read but it didn't stand out if you have told us.

Your lease/AST has primacy of contract over the scammers made up rules. If there is nothing in your contract about displaying a permit, it begs the question, why are you.

Have a look at this thread where the judge said the scammers were not offering anything (no consideration) because the resident already had a right to park.

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5969018/miss-r-versus-vcs-ltd&highlight=jestershoe

Also have a look at this site to see what other judges have said about residential parking.

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

What happened when you complained to the landowner and the MA?

Have you complained to your MP yet about this unregulated scam?

relatable

Oh shoot, I forgot to mention that. The parking scammers are forum favourite CPM. I've seen you guys are familiar with their tactics.

Also, I was being sarky about parking regulators.

As for why are we displaying permits? The signage says we have to, that is the only reason. I never really considered what the AST said on the matter. The lease/AST I checked was the draft that was send to us, so I will confirm that this is still the same in the lease we signed.

I have contacted the letting agency, as well as the property management company, but that was only today, so no word from them yet.

And I will be contacting the MP regarding this, but not done so yet.

Thanks for the links, I shall read them to see what is mentioned.

So what we are saying is that, if those terms in the lease/AST are as they are, CPM has no ground to enforce anything, let alone expecting people to pay anything.

The_Deep

As for why are we displaying permits? The signage says we have to,

The signage is most unlikely to apply to you,

Coupon-mad

So what we are saying is that, if those terms in the lease/AST are as they are, CPM has no ground to enforce anything, let alone expecting people to pay anything.

Yes, and it's an argument that is NOT worth trying at IAS (no argument works) but will likely win in court in the end, next year. No risk, no CCJ, all good!

The_Deep

These companies rely on people just paying. If it goes to court, where common sense rules, they usually lose.