NPC - Railway Car Park

antioch

Hello to all.

I have read through your 'Newbies' section and I have spent quite a few hours searching for any thread/post that might cover my question/problem, but have so far been unable to find anything on the subject. Perhaps I have not used the correct wording or have not put the words in the correct order.
I have also visited other sites and forums on this subject without any luck.
The incident is concerning a Railway Car park managed by NCP.
They have a recorded breach of their parking conditions via an ANPR camera.
They have produced two photos of a vehicle entering @
17:53:34 on 26.07.19 and exiting the car park @ 18:09:39 on
27.07.19 which produced a non-paid period of just over one day[ over-night parking]. The registered keeper was not the driver at this time.

A PCN was received by the registered keeper on 24.10.19 and is dated 23.10.19.
The cost is £75 with a 14 day discounted cost of £50. The registered keeper has made an appeal to this notice and the web site shows that this matter has been put on 'Hold'.

The driver, who lives/works within 5 miles of the station, has been contacted and is adamant that they did not park over night at the times indicated in the photos. They have searched their phone and emails to see if at any time they were with friends etc that night and have also checked bank and card statements, for any entries that would show they were away from their home area. They have also contacted their friends to see if they had had a 'night out' on that date. All these inquiries have proved negative. Of course, there may a good reason to not admit this breach. The keeper would not have allowed an over night park at the rail station and the driver is aware of this restriction when using the car.
The driver has said that during this month he did collect and deliver a work colleague to and from this station.

Question 1.
Is there a time limit placed on NCP to notify a registered keeper of a breach of contract and serving a PCN, as 3 months seems to be a bit long for anybody to remember where or when they may have parked.
I have read the following elsewhere -
If the parking firm has to get your details from the DVLA to send you a ticket by post alone, they have to send it within 14 days.[which begs the question 'within 14 of when'?]
Outside of the Protection of Freedoms Act, the parking firm should give you sufficient opportunity to appeal. If the parking firm sends you a ticket four months after the incident, for example, you’d most likely be able to argue that this is unfair.
But although not clear, I think this only refers to having a parking ticket left on ones windscreen.

However I did find one comment regarding this point in the forums -
See post 69 on Page 4 from Coupon-Mad dated 29.10.19 @ 1am.


Sorry - A direct link is not permitted?


Question 2.
Is there any known occurrence where there has been technical problems with an ANPR machine? It is possible that a photo of the exit within minutes of an entry was missed or not recorded and the other way round regarding the exit. Would there be a record of them? Of course, if other entry/exits were intentionally ignored, there could be an offence committed within the Theft Act 1968. However very difficult to prove.

Apart from the above two questions, I can find nothing else to justify an appeal and the driver would be willing to pay and not the keeper.

Apologies for the length of this initial thread.

Rgds
Antioch

Redx

1) 7 months is the maximum time to obtain keeper details

POFA does not apply on railway land , so if bylaws apply (check if they apply) then POFA doesn't

A keeper isn't liable on railway land , so no blabbing about who was driving

6 months is the deadline for bylaws , in magistrates court

Read the SABA / Indigo threads and sections

2) anpr and payment machines are regularly unreliable

Just appeal as keeper with the blue text template , nothing further to add , you are overthinking this due to not reading railway car park threads

A keeper has no liability , so nobody cares about what happened on the day (which is day zero when counting)

antioch

Hello Redx
Many thanks for your prompt reply and suggestions.
I will look through them and re-post if needed.


Antioch

Fruitcake

If the date of the alleged event and the date the NTK was received are correct, then then the latter has failed the strict requirements of the PoFA 2012 as it was received too late for keeper liability to apply. This assumes the latter is the NTK and not a reminder.
This is another reason for not blabbing about the driver's identity.

You have obtained a lot of random information. You need to thoroughly read the NEWBIES where you will get precise up to date information. There is a link to the PoFA where the timeline is explained for both NTDs and ANPR NTKs have been issued.

Common acronyms and abbreviations are given in post 5 of the NEWBIES. It's a good idea to print them or write them out for reference.

Redx

It's important to check if it's railway land or not

Either it is railway land and bylaws apply , in which case POFA doesn't meaning no Keeper liability

Or its not a railway station car park, but is a private NCP car park next to a railway station , totally different and POFA applies ,but NCP failed POFA , so again no keeper liability

Either way , the keeper has no liability

antioch

Hello Fruitcake
Thank you for contributing to my thread.
I have just returned from two days away so any advice/help, given so far, has yet to be done.
The keeper has not received an NTK but a Parking Charge Notice to Keeper. [PCN is not in the list of Acronyms]. I assume they are one and the same and the dates are as stated in my first post. The letter said nothing about being a 'reminder'.
I have yet to read through the PoFA 2012. When I do I will take notice of the NTDs and ANPR NTKs. I know what ANPR NTK means - can I assume that NTD means Notice To Driver?

So far I have only read through the 'Newbies' thread once and I have indeed already printed off the list of acronyms as it became clear they were needed. I will, time permitting, read it all again and the many links in it. I hope to get a whole day without interruptions to do so.

I do not consider one reply as having received 'a lot of random' information, but did find it a good start.

Many thanks again.

Rgds
Antioch

antioch

Hello Redx
Yes, I will contact the Rail Company as soon as I find out which person to contact via email. Probably customer services - no other link found yet.
I will post their response.
I may understand your comment better then.
I have this evening looked on the Rail company web site. There is a section where one can pay an unpaid parking charge. I entered the car Reg No and the station - it indicated no results found and that I could pay up to 4am the following day. If I wanted to pay there was a link which I clicked - entered the car Reg No and date/times from/to and up popped a message to say I was to pay £7.70.
Most strange to pay for parking on a date three months ago?
When I have a second read of 'Newbies' I will watch out for Crabman and Coupon-Mads threads.

Thanks again
Antioch

Coupon-mad

If I wanted to pay there was a link which I clicked - entered the car Reg No and date/times from/to and up popped a message to say I was to pay £7.70.
Most strange to pay for parking on a date three months ago?

How very odd.

Fruitcake

antioch wrote: »

Hello Fruitcake
Thank you for contributing to my thread.
I have just returned from two days away so any advice/help, given so far, has yet to be done.
The keeper has not received an NTK but a Parking Charge Notice to Keeper. [PCN is not in the list of Acronyms]. I assume they are one and the same and the dates are as stated in my first post. The letter said nothing about being a 'reminder'.
I have yet to read through the PoFA 2012. When I do I will take notice of the NTDs and ANPR NTKs. I know what ANPR NTK means - can I assume that NTD means Notice To Driver?

So far I have only read through the 'Newbies' thread once and I have indeed already printed off the list of acronyms as it became clear they were needed. I will, time permitting, read it all again and the many links in it. I hope to get a whole day without interruptions to do so.

I do not consider one reply as having received 'a lot of random' information, but did find it a good start.

Many thanks again.

Rgds
Antioch

A Parking Charge Notice to Keeper is by definition a NTK, so you are correct, they are the same.
Yes, NTD means Notice to Driver, also known as a windscreen ticket.

The PoFA explains how and when one each must be given for either driver or keeper liability to apply.

With regards to "random information" I meant this from your original post,

I have read the following elsewhere -
If the parking firm has to get your details from the DVLA to send you a ticket by post alone, they have to send it within 14 days.[which begs the question 'within 14 of when?
Outside of the Protection of Freedoms Act, the parking firm should give you sufficient opportunity to appeal. If the parking firm sends you a ticket four months after the incident, for example, you’d most likely be able to argue that this is unfair.
But although not clear, I think this only refers to having a parking ticket left on ones windscreen.

Most of that is incorrect. The regulars usually refer to stuff like that as caused by "listening to some bloke down the pub." No offence meant but this is the reason why you are being pointed to the PoFA which is an act of parliament, or law.

antioch wrote: »

Hello Redx
Yes, I will contact the Rail Company as soon as I find out which person to contact via email. Probably customer services - no other link found yet.
I will post their response.
I may understand your comment better then.
I have this evening looked on the Rail company web site. There is a section where one can pay an unpaid parking charge. I entered the car Reg No and the station - it indicated no results found and that I could pay up to 4am the following day. If I wanted to pay there was a link which I clicked - entered the car Reg No and date/times from/to and up popped a message to say I was to pay £7.70.
Most strange to pay for parking on a date three months ago?
When I have a second read of 'Newbies' I will watch out for Crabman and Coupon-Mads threads.

Thanks again
Antioch

Customer Services are not usually the best people to contact. The land could be owned by the Train Operating Company (TOC) or by Network Rail. What is important is to find out if it is a "railway asset" so use those words in your contact. If it is a railway asset then Railway Byelaws apply.

If that is the case then the driver can, or the owner may be liable for a byelaw breach. The keeper cannot. That's why the driver's identity should never be given.

I do not believe however that failing to pay for parking, or paying late, are byelaws offences.

Irrespective of who owns the land, the NTK arrived too late for keeper liability to apply. Again, as long as the driver is not identified the scammers are stuffed.

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten of these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

antioch

Coupon-mad wrote: »

How very odd.

Hello Coupon-Mad and welcome to this thread.
As you say - how very odd.
I will mention it once I confirm who and where to contact the rail company.
Antioch