Parking not wholly in lines - but left within grace period

Claret_Badger

so just got a NTK from NATIONAL PARKING ENFORCEMENT LTD
multiple images supplied by PPC of my car not within bay
there was a sign warning of ANPR
but car was driven out of car park within 5 minutes




does this mean I can still claim I was within grace period? As the driver chose NOT to enter contract?

by using a combination of templates from this forum I cobbled this for my appeal - please let me know thought before I click "send"

thanks

PCN XXXXXX

I refer to the above notice which I challenge, not as driver but as keeper of the car, on the following grounds:

a). The sum sought does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss and yet it is intended as a deterrent, so the charge is a penalty.

b). The allegation involves an alleged stay of under 5 minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end

c). In the absence of any evidence it is my case that you lack any or sufficient proprietary interest in the land.

d). Your notice was deficient and fails to comply with Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012.

This is my formal representation. There will be no admissions as to who was driving that day and no assumptions should be drawn in the absence of evidence. I have decided to appeal this as keeper and as such, you must either rely on the POFA 2012 or you must cancel the charge if you know you cannot claim keeper liability in this case. Please uphold this challenge or send a rejection letter, so I can escalate this matter to the independent appeal service offered by your Trade Body.

Yours faithfully

fisherjim

No you send the blue appeal from the newbies thread not something cobbled up using out of date arguments, point a went out with Beavis.


You won't win the appeal anyway and these muppets are in the IPC so POPLA won't be available.




But how on earth could the driver be stopped for such a short time without seeing the scammer taking photos, I assume they had popped over to read the T&C's?

The_Deep

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Have to read the stickies/FAQs? Is this a PCN for not paying or awkward parking, or both? [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif] [/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten of these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

Umkomaas

In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end

Quoting stuff that has no relevance just exposes your lack of understanding about what you're writing. This is nothing to do with Kelvin Reynolds or the BPA.

This is precisely why the initial appeal template in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 was written - just use that.

Le_Kirk

a). The sum sought does not represent a genuine pre-estimate of any loss and yet it is intended as a deterrent, so the charge is a penalty.

If you do have to submit a POPLA appeal and/or defend in small claims court, drop the above statement as it has been irrelevant for some years.

Claret_Badger

fisherjim wrote: »

But how on earth could the driver be stopped for such a short time without seeing the scammer taking photos, I assume they had popped over to read the T&C's?

remote camera affixed to public house
it's a Public House car park - street parking was affected by roadworks blocking layby making carriage way single file - PPC has affixed 8 photos of car, driver getting out and returning - and of signage.

due to short nature of stay - warnings were seen as toothless - unfortunatley,

blue template not obvious to n00b - i read whole sticky and found nothing relevant to not parking within lines (with photo evidence) but leaving car park within 4 minutes

Umkomaas

NPE use CCTV cameras, that’s how they can remotely monitor things like parking in Parent and Child, Disabled bays and white lines.

blue template not obvious to n00b - i read whole sticky and found nothing relevant to not parking within lines (with photo evidence) but leaving car park within 4 minutes

You’re not looking for an appeal template about white lines - they are irrelevant at this stage. The blue template isn’t infringement-specific, it’s a cover-all, just use it as is - please, spare us, no more questions about it, just use it!

No matter what you write, it won’t persuade the PPC to cancel your ticket. You’ll need to get a Judge to do that if NPE want to go that far.

Claret_Badger

I can't see where this blue template is - its not clear
seriously - I undertand you're trying to help - but all i see is links and FAQ's to old threads - hence why I cobbled my initial response.

Claret_Badger

this?

Template appeal for BPA or IPC members - copy this wording into the online appeal box::




Re PCN number:

I dispute your 'parking charge', as the keeper of the vehicle. I deny any liability or contractual agreement and I will be making a formal complaint about your predatory conduct to your client landowner and to my MP.

There will be no admissions as to who was driving and no assumptions can be drawn. Since your PCN is a vague template, I require ALL photos taken and an explanation of the allegation and your evidence, i.e.:

- If the allegation concerns a PDT machine, the data supplied in response to this appeal must include the record of payments made - showing partial VRNs - and an explanation of the reason for the PCN, because your Notice does not explain it.

- If the allegation involves an alleged overstay of minutes, your evidence must include the actual grace period agreed by the landowner. If you fail to evidence the actual grace period that applies at this site or suggest that only one period applies, this will be disregarded as an attempt to mislead. In the absence of evidence, it will be reasonably taken to be a minimum of twenty minutes (ten on arrival and ten after parking time) in accordance with the official BPA article by Kelvin Reynolds about 'observation periods' on arrival being additional and separate to a 'grace period' at the end.

- in all cases, you must include a close up actual photograph of the sign you contend was at the location on the material date.

Formal note:
Should you later pursue this charge by way of litigation, note that service of any legal documents by email is expressly disallowed and you are not entitled to assume that the data in this dispute/appeal remains the current address for service in the future.

Yours faithfully,

Claret_Badger

Umkomaas wrote: »

Quoting stuff that has no relevance just exposes your lack of understanding about what you're writing. This is nothing to do with Kelvin Reynolds or the BPA.

This is precisely why the initial appeal template in the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 was written - just use that.

because someone contradicted this response earlier in thread - hence my confusion

Umkomaas

Claret_Badger wrote: »

I can't see where this blue template is - its not clear
seriously - I undertand you're trying to help - but all i see is links and FAQ's to old threads - hence why I cobbled my initial response.

You just need to scroll down (or do a Ctrl+F if you’re using a laptop/PC) the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1 until you see this sub-heading.

Template appeal for BPA or IPC members - copy this wording into the online appeal box::

The blue text initial appeal template is directly below it.