Medical Negligence

bpt91

Hi,


I am just after some advice here regarding surgery i have had recently and the whole process of rehab which has been non existent potentially causing permanent damage.


I tore my anterior crucial anterior ligament around 3 years ago when i was 24 and the whole process was a mess from day one leading up until i finally had the operation in May. I am not really looking for a claim up or anything but more if i had to fork a lot of money out to get it rectified privately would it be claimable back or something.


When i first damaged my ACL the hospital examined my knee with no scan carried out and just some basic tests and advised me that i have only sprained my knee and to rest for 6-10 weeks. Considering i explained it felt like my knee snapped at my shin and i heard a massive pop i thought this is a bit of a quick assumption considering no scan but i am not the doctor here so fair enough. Resting period past then went for a light run after about a minute i hit some uneven floor and the exact same pop, sensation and leg breaking feeling of pain came back followed by a trip back to A&E with the doctor this time saying this was almost certainly snapped the first time from the description and should have never been given the advice and diagnosis with out further investigation (1st mess up) but from what i know no further damage caused just more pain.



After having my MRI scans a month later and advised i had a complete tear and possible meniscus damage i was advised to have the reconstruction surgery. I had to postpone this due to work commitments and the time off required with no pay was impossible for me at the current time. I was advised its ok to leave just do not play sports etc and lock ups within the knee may be possible, i understood and said i will get it done as soon as i can find the extended required time of 6 months off work due to my job being labor based.


Fast forward to 2019 i was having serious knee lock ups and knew it was now time to get it done so went through the process to get my name back on the waiting list, now the process went really down hill.


Operation process was a whole mess to not having equipment and cancelling me then not having equipment again on the new operation date, hanging around for 7 hours before i finally got seen after being 1st on the list but oh well that happens, it just felt the whole day was incredibly rushed to doctors seeing me and not listening to anything i had to say and once awoken pretty out of it i opened my eyes to 3 people standing there talking all sorts to me when i did not even know my name so i had no idea what was said.



This is where i have concerns to whether it was negligence or not.... I had done my research on the whole rehab process and knew physio was crucial to return the knee movement back to normal. Once the physio came to see me on the day i asked her about further rehab as i knew it had to start almost instantly to get full movement back. She said i will be referred to my local physio department to have this done as soon as. i had the op in may and it was now early august i could hardly walk still with out immense pain and movement was non existent and still on crutches.


I eventually contacted my doctor and had to refer my self to physio and wait a further month for an appointment. It was the beginning of September i finally had my first physio, the condition of my leg was walking with a limp and in a lot of pain still with hardly much bend. First physio session was an assessment, second was another assessment as the first one was not the correct assessment for my current state of knee, followed by one full session working on movement, a 15 minute session because they was running so far behind and a final session yesterday for him to say well this is not correct its no where near straight and your in pain and limping this long after your op. He said this needs further investigation and this could be permanent, much to my joy.


I am seeing my surgeon today for my 2nd follow up appointment and will stress my concerns and disappointment with the whole process and possibly cause of permanent damage to my knee likely caused by the delay of aftercare unless proven to be an issue during reconstruction.



I wanted to know would this be classed as a form negligence as i don't want to claim money off the NHS as i do understand the pressure and lack of support they have to deal with everyday so it would feel wrong but if this is lifelong damage to my knee at the age of 28 with my job being labor based with my bosses already getting frustrated with me being on light duties then i need a solution of sorts whether to force further investigation and not get told to do one nothing can be done or seeing if its fixable and getting it done privately and just getting the costs covered for it, i do not want to gain X amount for my back pocket i just want it fixed because the stress and frustrations of not even being able to do basics things is getting to much now and god knows what i will be like an older age too with it. Sorry for it being so long its just trying to get as much in as i can to make it clear.


Thank you

boo_star

Speak to a solicitor.

My understanding of medical negligence claims is they are hard to prove and they don't seem like something you can do a DIY job of.

bpt91

Thanks, i will see what the surgeon says today at my follow up. hopefully i never have to go down that route as i would personally hate to do anything against the NHS but its just getting quite concerning now and thinking about future issues when older is stressing me out a little... plus i think the swelling has moved from my knee to my belly with all this lack of activity, need to get moving :rotfl:

LadyDee

Whatever you do, when you see the surgeon, don't mention "negligence" - this will put you on the back foot immediately. Instead, ask for his "help" and ask if it is at all possible, in view of the previous problems with your knee, that they could perhaps ensure after any. further surgery that you get immediate aftercare.

Manxman_in_exile

LadyDee wrote: »

Whatever you do, when you see the surgeon, don't mention "negligence" - this will put you on the back foot immediately. Instead, ask for his "help" and ask if it is at all possible, in view of the previous problems with your knee, that they could perhaps ensure after any. further surgery that you get immediate aftercare.

Think I agree with LadyDee. I would also make sure I take a detailed note of what the specialist today tells you. I think I would also ask them if they can explain what has happened to cause this problem, and if they can explain why you weren't given a proper rehab programme.


I hope you have notes of the previous physio sessions where one has said(?) "This isn't right" or whatever. And when the A&E doctor on the second occasion said it was almost certainly snapped the first time?


And before the first operation, was it explained to you what the possible complications of the operation might be, and what could go wrong?


As a former NHS manager of 25 years plus, I'd have no compunction whatsoever about suing the NHS if I'd suffered harm or loss as a result of their negligence. Question is, what do you do about it? Either find a local solicitor who has expertise in dealing with personal injury claims (especially medical negligence), but they are probably fairly thin on the ground. Or go to a "No win no fee" firm and see if they would be willing to take it on. But they'll probably want a cut of any damages if you win (25%?), and if you lose you'll still need to cover their expenses (eg fees for medical reports etc.) unless you have After The Event insurance to pay those expenses.


You could try corrective surgery privately, but how are you going to fund it without claiming against the NHS? And who's to say a private operation will be more successful than the NHS, other than getting it done quickly?


If you do have corrective surgery (sounds like you may have no choice) make sure that a proper post-op rehab programme is in place.

Hermione_Granger

LadyDee wrote: »

Whatever you do, when you see the surgeon, don't mention "negligence" - this will put you on the back foot immediately.

And with a dodgy anterior crucial anterior ligament, that's the last thing they need!

bpt91

Manxman_in_exile wrote: »

Think I agree with LadyDee. I would also make sure I take a detailed note of what the specialist today tells you. I think I would also ask them if they can explain what has happened to cause this problem, and if they can explain why you weren't given a proper rehab programme.


I hope you have notes of the previous physio sessions where one has said(?) "This isn't right" or whatever. And when the A&E doctor on the second occasion said it was almost certainly snapped the first time?


And before the first operation, was it explained to you what the possible complications of the operation might be, and what could go wrong?


As a former NHS manager of 25 years plus, I'd have no compunction whatsoever about suing the NHS if I'd suffered harm or loss as a result of their negligence. Question is, what do you do about it? Either find a local solicitor who has expertise in dealing with personal injury claims (especially medical negligence), but they are probably fairly thin on the ground. Or go to a "No win no fee" firm and see if they would be willing to take it on. But they'll probably want a cut of any damages if you win (25%?), and if you lose you'll still need to cover their expenses (eg fees for medical reports etc.) unless you have After The Event insurance to pay those expenses.


You could try corrective surgery privately, but how are you going to fund it without claiming against the NHS? And who's to say a private operation will be more successful than the NHS, other than getting it done quickly?


If you do have corrective surgery (sounds like you may have no choice) make sure that a proper post-op rehab programme is in place.

Thank you for the advice,


After seeing my surgeon today i questioned about the lack of after care and he told me i should have had pre-op physio as well as after op arranged but after browsing my notes he realised that due to me living in North London and the op was carried out at a hospital in East London the NHS are unable to transfer referrals from one area to another which sounds crazy in this age with everything being digital! So trying to keep calm at this point i asked him considering i was asked about 10 times on the day my address every time someone came to see me it did not click for anyone to mention this to me and to just send me on way telling me it will be arranged... which just got me a blank stare and him changing subject and blaming the NHS rules of transferring patient notes between areas.



Again all felt so rushed in and out with in 6 minutes, did not even look at my knee or test it out after mentioning the issues i am having with regards to pain and movement, only plus is i have been referred for an MRI so hopefully get some more news from that then go from there.


thanks again for the advice

Murphybear

bpt91 wrote: »

Thank you for the advice,


After seeing my surgeon today i questioned about the lack of after care and he told me i should have had pre-op physio as well as after op arranged but after browsing my notes he realised that due to me living in North London and the op was carried out at a hospital in East London the NHS are unable to transfer referrals from one area to another which sounds crazy in this age with everything being digital! So trying to keep calm at this point i asked him considering i was asked about 10 times on the day my address every time someone came to see me it did not click for anyone to mention this to me and to just send me on way telling me it will be arranged... which just got me a blank stare and him changing subject and blaming the NHS rules of transferring patient notes between areas.



Again all felt so rushed in and out with in 6 minutes, did not even look at my knee or test it out after mentioning the issues i am having with regards to pain and movement, only plus is i have been referred for an MRI so hopefully get some more news from that then go from there.


thanks again for the advice

I had some physio in Exeter and when I moved they transferred me to the local hospital without any problems.

I had an accident 30 something years ago and tore the cartilage in my knee. I had surgery and was off work for 5 months. Unfortunately knees can be very tricky things.

born_again

Please do not take this the wrong way.
It happened 3 years ago. But you did nothing in the mean time due to "i will get it done as soon as i can find the extended required time of 6 months off work due to my job being labor based"
Surly if you have a labour based role, it should have been done or you are just making it worse?

Same after opp, why not keep chasing if you knew you needed physio?

Manxman_in_exile

bpt91 wrote: »

... and he told me i should have had pre-op physio as well as after op arranged but after browsing my notes he realised that due to me living in North London and the op was carried out at a hospital in East London the NHS are unable to transfer referrals from one area to another which sounds crazy in this age with everything being digital! So trying to keep calm at this point i asked him considering i was asked about 10 times on the day my address every time someone came to see me it did not click for anyone to mention this to me and to just send me on way telling me it will be arranged... which just got me a blank stare and him changing subject and blaming the NHS rules of transferring patient notes between areas...

Not my area of expertise when I was in the NHS, but I would suggest that is bo77ocks!


Why was the operation carried out at a non-local (I presume) hospital? If the NHS could cope with that sort of out of area referral (which happens all the time) there's no reason at all why the after-care couldn't be transferred back too.


At the very least(!) the operating hospital should have sent some sort of discharge letter to your GP (whom I assume made the original referral - didn't they?) outlining what sort of post-operative care was required. From my experience, you ought to have had a copy of this letter. What did it say about rehab physio? Should your GP have been organising this? (Indeed, what has your GP been saying throughout all of this?).


You could try getting copies of your medical records from your GP and the respective hospitals (incl both A&E depts.) to see what they say.


Usual first route of hospital complaints is to go through Patient Advice and Liaison Service (PALS) and then whatever is their formal complaints procedure. Check their website.

Manxman_in_exile

born_again wrote: »

Please do not take this the wrong way.
It happened 3 years ago. But you did nothing in the mean time due to "i will get it done as soon as i can find the extended required time of 6 months off work due to my job being labor based"
Surly if you have a labour based role, it should have been done or you are just making it worse?

Same after opp, why not keep chasing if you knew you needed physio?

Yes - those are all good points.


I spent a week in hospital in February. My discharge letter said I'd have a follow up appointment with a particular consultant within a few weeks. After six weeks I rang his medical secretary and she told me that the request for a follow up had never been passed onto them! If I'd not telephoned...


Again, my wife was referred to a specialist a couple of months ago. He wanted a CT scan done and booked a follow up appointment to discuss the results. After a few weeks of not hearing about the scan she rang up. Was told the appointment letter (for 7pm on a Sunday!) had gone out that day. We thought that a bit suspicious. Had scan done, saw specialist the following week, and the results weren't through! Someone had obviously forgotten to arrange the scan*.


The OP does not seem to have been very pro-active in doing what they could have done themselves.


EDIT: Not being critical of OP - just pointing out the, to me, obvious. But not everybody has worked in the NHS to realise this.


OP - you do also know that personal injury claims (I'm thinking about the original failure in A&E to do a scan) have to be initiated within three years


* Result - wasted consultant appointment