Appealing CEL PCN received after 26 days Their site asks who was driving! (Civil Enforcement Ltd)

Izzard

Hi folks,

I received a PARKING CHARGE NOTICE (PCN) from Civil Enforcement Ltd whose ANPR cameras recorded my car entering and exiting the car park of a sports centre 26 days prior. According to the notice, they issued it 23 days after the "incident".

We've used this sports centre for years and last month they decided to bring in Civil Enforcement Ltd aka Creative Parking Solutions to ensure fair use of the car park. Fair enough, but the signs are high up above eye level, not visible when parking in front of them. I had no idea they had done this and no-one told me about the tablet in Reception when we arrived for a pre-booked sports centre session either.

I have had a miserable afternoon / evening of reading the forum, feeling aggrieved etc. and I intend to appeal using the template provided. However, as soon as I enter the PCN number, vehicle index and post code to appeal online at https://www.ce-service.co.uk as directed, the site asks "ARE YOU THE DRIVER OF THE VEHICLE?" and the only buttons are YES and NO.

My understanding from the forum is that, according to Schedule 4 of Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, a postal PCN must arrive by day 14, otherwise there can be no keeper liability.

Am I barking up the right tree here and what can I do about the very direct question "ARE YOU THE DRIVER OF THE VEHICLE?" before I can even send my appeal?

Many thanks for any assistance.

Coupon-mad

We've used this sports centre for years and last month they decided to bring in Civil Enforcement Ltd aka Creative Parking Solutions to ensure fair use of the car park. Fair enough,

It really is not fair enough. It so stupid and a scam.

They are not allowed to ask that question and insist on an answer for an appeal.

You should be able to leave it blank or choose 'prefer not to say' etc. No-one else has told us that CEL ask that question and make an appeal dependant upon the answer.

Are you certain you can't just miss it out? If not, then complain to the BPA!

Izzard

Coupon-mad wrote: »

No-one else has told us that CEL ask that question and make an appeal dependant upon the answer.

Are you certain you can't just miss it out?

I did wonder if it's a new thing they've inserted because I haven't seen it mentioned in these forums.

Anyway I went back to try again and - you're right - it does seem like you can just click "proceed" instead of clicking either button:



So hopefully this is useful to others!
Thanks!

Coupon-mad

Just click yes to registered keeper.

Izzard

Thanks. I did that and was able to submit my appeal.

Is there anything in the fact it was well over 14 days old, do you think?

MistyZ

CEL know exactly what they're doing. Online forms typically require an answer / selection before it is possible to proceed so it's not surprising you made the assumption you did. Many people must be caught out by that. It's entrapment.

If they cite PoFA, then the delay means the keeper cannot now be liable. That's something for POPLA.

Umkomaas

Izzard wrote: »

Thanks. I did that and was able to submit my appeal.

Is there anything in the fact it was well over 14 days old, do you think?

Definitely, but it won’t cause CEL to uphold your appeal, POPLA is the place for that. So use the initial appeal template from the NEWBIES FAQ sticky, post #1, get your POPLA code from the CEL rejection letter, then it’s on to the final stage in killing this off.

The_Deep

You might wish to complain to the BPA, driver information is not required under POFA.

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Nine times out of ten of these tickets are scams so consider complaining to your MP, it can cause the scammer extra work.

Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted[/FONT][FONT=Times New Roman, serif]

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies.[/FONT]

Izzard

Umkomaas wrote: »

Definitely, but it won’t cause CEL to uphold your appeal, POPLA is the place for that.

Good news: the initial "appeal" to them seemed to do the trick. Today I got a very short letter: "We refer to recent communications with this office in respect of the Parking Contravention Enforcement Notice. We now confirm that this Notice has been cancelled."

I thought I was going to have a protracted battle but it turns out that educating yourself about the law can be very useful! They were outside the time limit but tried to demand money anyway.

1505grandad

Well done.

Complain, complain, complain - to the |BPA, DVLA, ICO, MP when known - CEL,a professional parking firm knew, or should have known, that the pcn was not valid so the only reason they issued it was to scam uninformed motorists to pay up - therefore, as scamming people is not a "reasonable cause", they have obtained your private data from the DVLA unlawfully.

You never know, it may cause them a slight irritation.

Izzard

Good point. I must be crazy to put it down to an innocent oversight on their part when their whole business model seems predicated on exploiting motorists doing the same.