DWP claim against estate

0511034

Hi All

I am hoping you can help with a query. My Grandfather has recently passed away at the age of 91 years of age and my Father in law (FIL) is bar a very minute amount the sole beneficiary and executor of the estate.

For IHT purposes the estate was not over the £325k threshold (no where near it in fact) but we completed an IHT 205 as the home property gdad lived in needed transferring into FIL name and thus a Grant of Probate was needed.

Grant of Probate arrived in early September and a couple of weeks later my FIL received a letter from DWP advising they were investigating the estate for potential overpayments in pension credit and requesting FIL declare all assets of the estate for them to cross reference against documentation they are obtaining from the pension department.

Grandad had approximately £26k in savings and his home at the time of his death, I understand the home property should NOT be included in the value of the estate for pension credit purposes as it was granddads home. I believe, although I have no paperwork to confirm this, that he was put on an AIP firstly in 2003 when his wife (nan) was still alive and a further/revised AIP was issued in 2009 when Nan passed away. I only surmise this as the DWP after we responded detailing the assets of the estate held have wrote further to us now stating that they have checked the details from the pension credit department and the same does not match what is declared in assets and they now require us to send bank statements / details of granddads finances going back to 2003 and want details also of the assets held in 2009 (this is why I presume there were two AIPs issued).

Unfortunately, granddad held no paperwork statements etc and the only bank statements we hold were those obtained on grandad's death detailing his £26k savings.

I firstly want to state we have NO issue paying back any monies owed in respect of any overpayments that may occurred. We are aware of the law around this and that it is what it is. That is no issue but I do have queries which I cannot locate answers to.

I am finding it difficult to locate what amount Gdad was receiving in Pension Credit. His bank statement says he was getting approximately £290 per week PC but I do not believe this is correct, I believe this amount also includes his state pension and disability payments he was receiving as there is no mention of his state pension on his bank statement and I believe he was registered as having a disability.

My queries that I cant locate the answer to and which I am hoping you can assist with are:-

1. If we cannot get bank statements going back to 2003 (the two banks only have statements going back 10 years to 2009) and if they determine there has been overpayments of pension credit from 2009 what happens for the 2003 - 2009 period? Do the DWP just automatically assume there has been an overpayment based on the assets held in 2009 and apply this back to 2003, or are they only limited to claim back overpayments that may have occurred since 2009 when actual evidence of the assets held exist?

2. Because we do not know what amount Gdad was receiving in Pension credit and how the £290p/w was split between pension credit and state pension etc, are we entitled to request from the DWP paperwork / evidence of the amount Gdad actually received in Pension credit? FIL as executor would like to hand it over to solicitors but would like to know out of curiosity what amount of Pension Credit Gdad was receiving and what the original paperwork in 2003 and 2009 confirms his assets were at that time so he or his solicitor (in line with his executors duties) can check over any amounts or calculations the DWP may provide.

3. If (big assumption!) an AIP was granted based on correct information given by Gdad as to the assets held at that time of assessment (2003 and/or 2009), can the DWP seek to reclaim any money back based on any accrual of assets since the assessment point i.e. if for instance Gdad had £10k in savings at the time of assessment in 2009 but had £26k at time of death due to saving money from 2009 to 2019, can the DWP claim back any money as part of overpayments? My understanding of an AIP is that once it is issued there is no need to declare any increase in savings. If this is the case surely gdad / estate cannot be penalised after he has passed away.

I have requested bank statements as the DWP have requested but I am struggling to locate answers to the above queries.

Thank you in advance for any help you can provide.

pmlindyloo

It is routine for the DWP to write a letter on the death of a claimant. It does not necessarily mean that there is an overpayment.

The DWP has been strongly criticised for asking for bank statements when the bank is unable to provide them and are 'supposed' to be looking into this.

Much rests on whether your grandfather had an AIP during the period in question as you are correct in saying that an increase of savings does not have to be reported during this time.

As to moving forwards...

It may be worth telephoning and asking purely about the AIP(s) as this would automatically mean there were no overpayments. Don't forget to note date/time of phone call and the name of the person you speak to (pass this information on to the executor)

If there were no AIP(s) then it is likely that there was an overpayment. Any amount over £10000 in savings would be deducted at the rate of £1 each week for every £500 (or part of).

It is perfectly reasonable to ask for a breakdown of the pension credit details and the savings amounts they have been given.

I am not sure how they would assess savings of years with no evidence. If the savings were built up gradually then they may do a pro rata assessment or they may 'write it off'.

After they provide a breakdown then send them any bank statements you can get.

Unfortunately this may take some time so any monies should not be distributed from the estate until this is sorted. Hence my suggestion that an initial phone call about the AIP(s) may be sensible.

Good luck.

PS If there was an AIP in place make sure the DWP writes to the executor confirming there was no overpayments.

0511034

Hi Pmlindyloo,

Thanks very much for taking the time to respond.

Yes I think FIL will need to call them to clarify if an AIP was in place.

I believe they may be asking for bank statements to assess whether the information given by Grandad at the time the AIP assessment took place (presuming it was 2003 and 2009) was correct - which is fair enough. I was just wondering if all was correct, whether they could then seek a repayment based on savings being accrued after the assessment had taken place. You have kindly answered that though so thank you.

I think going forward I will request bank statements going back to 2009 which is when the banks say they have them for and submit to DWP. In the meantime I will call them to ask for evidence of the AIPs that were in place (if any) as well as a breakdown of his weekly payment to assess what proportion was pension credit.

Thanks again for your response - it is greatly appreciated.

[Deleted User]

OP are you the executer of the estate? if not it is for them to deal with.

0511034

Hi Venison,
My Father in Law is Executor and he is dealing with everything that he needs to, I am merely assisting him and as he doesn't use computers very much he asked that I raise the queries on here as he isn't good with electronics. I am asking these queries here on his behalf.
Thanks

AW2011S

Your FIL should ask the DWP for copies of their A14 forms that state what income and savings were used to calculate the pension and savings credits as well as the credits that were paid for each week. We found with DM that until you see the DWP breakdowns, it's difficult to check what the actual overpayment is and the DWP do not always calculate the overpayment correctly as they estimate figures so be prepared to argue.

AnotherJoe

OP, read this thread especially my posts at the end summarising my experience (in particular post 23) and what i found out
https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/5844479/recovery-from-estates-dwp&highlight=dwp