Gladstones and CPM CCJ - old address

duckieb

Hello all. An update regarding this CCJ. I had the set-aside hearing today and thought I would put my summary below while it's still fresh in case it helps anyone else. The set-aside was granted, which is a huge relief, but the experience itself was odd and I'm not sure very positive.

The set-aside hearing was set for mid-morning. I got there bright and early, baby-who-won't-take-a-bottle and husband in tow. I had a folder with all the documentation/press releases/evidence printed, and had drafted a skeleton argument for my own benefit as well as the WS and draft defence. I had had zero correspondence from Gladstones or CPM after they sent me the LBCs in response to my SAR and nothing more. Noone from Gladstones or CPM attended today.

My hearing was delayed by approx half an hour. Eventually I was called in and met by a slightly hostile judge. He said that as he was 'sure I'd already seen in the Claimant's extensive WS' the Claimant has already consented to set-aside the default judgement as the claim was not served. I said no I hadn't seen as the Claimant had not sent me their WS, any of the evidence I'd asked for, or anything really. The judge did not seem too bothered by this. He went on to tell me that the claim had been served at my new address - I doubted myself for a second and then told him that I'd triple checked and it had been served at my old address. He then read something in front of him and seemed to agree. He started writing the order to set-aside the judgement and commented that I'd already done a draft defence - I told him that I had, but I had been prejudiced as I hadn't seen the PoC or any photographs/original notices despite asking for them (he trying to interrupt me when I said 'prejudiced' saying 'no you're not' then agreed when I finished my sentence).

Everything was then tangential and he ranted about the NHS and poor organisation of these institutions and made some unnecessary and awkward assertions which did not sit too well with me as a woman of colour. However he ended on a more positive note, gave some advice for the claim itself and not to make defences too long, and agreed that I should've been sent the Claimant's WS and that he would arrange for the court to do so. I asked about costs reserved and he said no, and that the no costs rule would apply when it came to the actual claim. The whole thing took about 20-30 minutes. I've spent the last few weeks stressing and reading and preparing and wish Gladstones had just sent me their bloody WS saying that they consent to a set-aside, and saved me all that unnecessary stress. I'm disgusted with them to say the least.

So all in all, positive in that I got the set-aside but an odd experience. The claim will be re-served at my new address and I intend to defend it with all I have. Thank you all for everything - your support and help has been invaluable and I wish I could send you all gifts. I will keep you updated re the claim.

Coupon-mad

I had the set-aside hearing today and thought I would put my summary below while it's still fresh in case it helps anyone else. The set-aside was granted, which is a huge relief, but the experience itself was odd and I'm not sure very positive.

Glad to hear it got set aside.

The whole thing took about 20-30 minutes. I've spent the last few weeks stressing and reading and preparing and wish Gladstones had just sent me their bloody WS saying that they consent to a set-aside, and saved me all that unnecessary stress. I'm disgusted with them to say the least

Hmmm, a poster yesterday made a new suggestion, rare for this forum.

A wasted costs order against the legal representatives who have caused a party more costs than they would have had to pay...

https://forums.moneysavingexpert.com/discussion/comment/76702443#Comment_76702443

Theirs is also a UKCPM case. Read what they suggested. It seems to have application in your case but is something new for us, and I am not legally qualified.

Maybe Johnersh might see this when he is next online, as he is a solicitor.

duckieb

Thank you Coupon-Mad. Wasted costs order is very interesting - I will do some more reading on it (and if anyone legally qualified can explain a little more I would be very grateful). Once I get the new claim form, I'll come back here and just run my new defence by you all. I've submitted another SAR to UKCPM as they STILL haven't sent me all the evidence or the original PCN. I still feel I don't know what this charge relates to!

Coupon-mad

Have they been ordered by the Judge to send a claim form? Are you sure the ball is in their court, not yours, as per the written order from the court following that hearing?

Usually, after a set aside, Judges tell a D to submit a defence within 14 days, regardless.

duckieb

Yes the Judge ordered for a new claim form to be sent. He also ordered that I be sent a copy of the witness statement they submitted for the set-aside.
Today I received a copy of the order, and a new claim form. The claim form is not the usual one and states 'as the claim was issued on-line, this office does not hold an N1 claim form. However I can state that the original amount claimed was £171.09. The court charged a £25.00 fee to issue the claim and £50.00 solicitors costs were allowed on issue of the claim.
The particulars of claim are:
The driver of the vehicle with registration XX parking in breach of the terms of parking stipulated on the signage (the 'Contract' at XX Hospital) on XX date thus incurring the parking charge. The driver of the vehicle agreed to pay the PCN within 28 days of issue yet failed to do so. The Claimant claims the unpaid PCN from the Defendant as the driver/keeper of the vehicle. Despite demands being made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability. The Claimant claims £100 for the PCN, £60 contractual costs pursuant to the contract and PCN T&Cs, together with statutory interest of £11.09 pursuant to S69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% per annum, continuing at £0.04 per day.'

There is a response pack and date of service is 15/01/2020. I am about to do the AOS. However I am a little confused - is the total amount still the £246 (171 +25 +50) or will they add the solicitors costs twice now for re-serving the claim?
That is then only information I have on the form, and Gladstones/UKCPM still have not sent me their witness statement or photos taken or any evidence so I have no idea what they are thinking. The judge said the witness statement they submitted was extensive and used 'the right act' which he thinks was PoFA.

I have never worked at this hospital but it had a carpark adjacent to a hospital I worked at. The date is I think my first day at the other hospital and I parked and spoke to parking on the phone who said not to worry for today re a permit and gave me a verbal ok. It may be that I parked in the other hospitals carpark instead.

My questions now are:
1. Should I contact Gladstones myself and say that they should send me their WS for the set-aside, to aid in my defence, as well as photos etc relating to the original charge? I already submitted a SAR before and they sent me only letters before claim. Or should I contact the court first re WS.

2. Should I contact parking at this hospital and ask re cancelling the charge? Or confirmation that they gave me a verbal ok? Although it won't get rid of the claim, I don't know whether it would help. I do know they are difficult to get hold of however.

3. Does the added £60 and random interest constitute abuse of process? That would be my main defence if so.

Thank you so much to all. I am doing the AOS and have started my defence.

nosferatu1001

They cannot add £50 on again. That fee is the MAXIMUM that can be charged to file a claim. A new claim has not been filed, not really!

You have not confirmed this, so please: tell us exaclty what the court ordered. You have *implied* that the written Order you have requires te WS by a certain date, but you have not stated that the written Order well, ORDERS that. So tell us.
IF they are in breach of the court order, then you MUST inform the court.

1) Tell Gladstones theyre in breach of hte order of X date and you require the WS within 2 days
2) Yes. Something from the landowner is of course really, really useful!
3) YES. And no it is NOT your main defence! Of course it isnt. because it is not a defence to the underlying claim, so it cannot be your MAIN defence *ever*. It is an abuse of process unles the signs VERY explicitly state the amount that can be added.

Interest is NOT RANDOM. 8% is the court approved rate .

duckieb

My apologies, I totally forgot to state what the order says. In court, the judge explicitly said to me he would ask the court to send me the Claimants WS as I should have been sent it. However on reading it, it states that:
'By Consent of Claimant it is ordered that:
1. Judgement in default dated 22/03/20i9 set aside for want of service.

Not by Consent:
2. Defendant's sole address for service amended on Court record to XX
3. Claim shall now be re-served by post by Court upon Defendant together with draft forms of Defence and instructions for response.
4. No order as to costs.'

So I assume by mentioning the draft forms of Defence, he means what Gladstones sent him?

Sorry I did not know how the interest was calculated - that is useful to know thank you. I have called the Parking team at the hospital who were not at all helpful and say it is too long ago, but I have emailed someone else now as a last resort.
And you are right - I am trying to draft a defence to the underlying claim itself, although am unsure how at present as it seems it was a mistake in where to park.

nosferatu1001

No. A "draft form of defence" is the form YOU have. YOU are the defendant, YOU write the defence - a claimant obviously does not "defend", they *claim*.

Look like they were not ordered to submit the WS to you. shame.

say it doesnt matter how long ago it is 0 its the first you knew of it, and their obligaiton as principal has not ended.

You cant be unsure, because there are 17 defences, right there in the newbies thread. Read them. Understand that you are doing this for the first time, so of course youre assuming all that matters is one solitary fact. Thats wrong - theres lots!

Redx

And bear in mind that the added £60 is not a defence to the PCN , it's unlikely to get the case thrown out

The claimant could concede the added £60 charge , meaning your defence will be in regards to the PCN , which is what started all this palaver

So your defence is about the POC , the PCN , what happened , if you had permission to park etc

The abuse of process is to limit the costs if you lost , by getting rid of the extra bolted on charges that should not be there

I hope you understand his ?

As for the claim , they are the claimant , hence the word claim

You are the defendant , hence the word defence

Good luck

henrik777

Claim shall now be re-served by post by Court upon Defendant together with draft forms of Defence and instructions for response

I would seek clarification from the court.

Personally i think it means all the forms ordinarily sent with a claim form explaining what a defendants options are.