Half Day Holiday Rules

Tomlan

Hi all,


We are coming to the end of the year and one of my employees who has a fair bit of holiday left has asked if he can take all his holiday in half days but work a bit longer than a half day. For context -


He is paid hourly and his contracted hours are 8.30-16.30 but he usually does 7.30-16.30 for the overtime. If he were to work 7.30-15.00 for example, he would be paid for 7 hours (30mins unpaid lunch) and then get an additional 3.75hours of holiday pay. So he would be financially compensated for having worked longer, but how does this work with the Working Time Regulations, as he is working almost a full regular shift?


I'm quite happy for him to work longer as we get more out of him (albeit for more money) and the payroll system automatically works it out so it would be like him working 7.30-18.45 (7.5 hours worked plus 3.75 hours holiday). He's over 18 and has opted out of the 48 hour limit. But I don't want to greenlight this unless it's above board.



Any help would be much appreciated.

Comms69

I don't see the issue? You put him down as half day worked, half day holiday and overtime surely?

spadoosh

The rules are hes got to take his holidays. So youre going to fall foul of the rules.

In these types of instances all parties normally keep hush as its a mutually beneficial agreement that just happens to contravene a rule.

spadoosh

Comms69 wrote: »

I don't see the issue? You put him down as half day worked, half day holiday and overtime surely?

Overtime is classed as working, i was under the impression employee had to have 5.6 weeks not working? Not specifically 5.6 weeks worth of holiday pay.

Comms69

spadoosh wrote: »

The rules are hes got to take his holidays. So youre going to fall foul of the rules.

In these types of instances all parties normally keep hush as its a mutually beneficial agreement that just happens to contravene a rule.

I don't believe so, he is taking his holiday.

Comms69

spadoosh wrote: »

Overtime is classed as working, i was under the impression employee had to have 5.6 weeks not working? Not specifically 5.6 weeks worth of holiday pay.

That is not correct. In fact there's no obligation to take holiday, simply to make it available.

spadoosh

Comms69 wrote: »

That is not correct. In fact there's no obligation to take holiday, simply to make it available.

Grey area?

An employer is obliged to try and ensure that their employee takes 5. 6 weeks holiday (that is holiday, not holiday pay) under the working time directive. reason being for staff welfare. The employer has a duty of care.

In this case assume that the employee is trying to squeeze the remnants of his holiday in and this arrangement isnt agreeable but put forward by the employer. Theres no way the employer could force this arrangement if the employee contested it.

Comms69

spadoosh wrote: »

Grey area?

An employer is obliged to try and ensure that their employee takes 5. 6 weeks holiday (that is holiday, not holiday pay) under the working time directive. reason being for staff welfare. The employer has a duty of care.

In this case assume that the employee is trying to squeeze the remnants of his holiday in and this arrangement isnt agreeable but put forward by the employer. Theres no way the employer could force this arrangement if the employee contested it.

No grey area. There is no obligation on the employer to ensure holidays are taken.


Please can you quote which section of the WTD 1998 (or as amended 2007) places that burden on the employer?


An employer could indeed do this if they wanted to. (assuming the contract allowed for compulsory overtime).


I really don't understand what you're arguing. The employee is entitled to 5.6 weeks of paid time off. That can be done in half days, no issue there. It can be dictated by the employer (not happening in this case). And an employee may be obliged to work overtime (though again in this case they're volunteering to do so)

Blatchford

Provided the employee takes actual time off work (i.e is not being paid instead of taking holiday) then it's ok. But as an employer the poster should be aware that this is really not good practice and they need to take more control of leave arrangements. Letting someone accumulate lots of unseen leave until the end of the proud is poor employment practice. Letting someone work without proper time off (even if they want too) is poor practice and lacks due care for their welfare and health. Paid holidays were not introduced into law to inconvenience people. It was done because workers need time off and need to rest properly, even if they think they don't. The long term impact of poor holiday practice is bad for people. If you care about your employee, don't let this happen again.

martinthebandit

Comms69 wrote: »

No grey area. There is no obligation on the employer to ensure holidays are taken.


Please can you quote which section of the WTD 1998 (or as amended 2007) places that burden on the employer?


An employer could indeed do this if they wanted to. (assuming the contract allowed for compulsory overtime).


I really don't understand what you're arguing. The employee is entitled to 5.6 weeks of paid time off. That can be done in half days, no issue there. It can be dictated by the employer (not happening in this case). And an employee may be obliged to work overtime (though again in this case they're volunteering to do so)

If the employee is on minimum wage and does not take his full paid mandatory annual leave entitlement then, in my experience, HMRC become very interested as it can drop the employee below the minimum wage.

Blatchford

martinthebandit wrote: »

If the employee is on minimum wage and does not take his full paid mandatory annual leave entitlement then, in my experience, HMRC become very interested as it can drop the employee below the minimum wage.

I may have misread it, but I believe that they are taking the leave, but in hours. Technically, if someone wants to take their leave an hour a day, then they can if the employer also agrees that.

HMRC take no interest at all unless someone reports it became they wouldn't even know! Holiday taken is not reported to HMRC. And previous posters are correct - an employer is not legally obliged to force an employee to take holiday. They'd be damned stupid not to. But they don't have to. They must allow the employee to be able to take it, but if the employee won't then they can technically agree not to force them to take it.