Gladstones LBC , CPM PCN given whilst working

BS_Newbie

I am submitting this on behalf of a family member who received a PCN back in January from CPM & has now received a LBC from Gladstones today with £160 as amount due which is the notorious £60 on top of the £100 PCN charge for CPM's "time spent and resource facilitating the recovery of the charge. The amount is a pre determined and nominal contribution to our CLient's losses as a direct result if your non payment " - taken straight out of the body of the Gladstone LBC letter . -

This is the proper LBC saying that if the RK believes they have a valid reason for non payment they can reply pursuant to Para 4 of the PAP for debt claims under CPS 1998 and they then give a link to the form on their website . - The RK has followed the advice given in this forum and will not be using Gladstones forms! - At the end they ask politely to pay or reply within 30 days of the date of the letter (letter date 10/10/2019, date received - today 15/10/2019).

I have a good idea of the process of what we should do now but wondered if we can do anything else at this stage.

think a small amount of background would help to see if I have missed anything . - I have pics of all the correspondence and can post these as well.

So from reading details from Coupon Mad's post at this stage we are going to :

1) Send CPM a SAR
2) email Gladstones and state that the RK has sent their client a SAR and so they require a restriction of data processing and the case should be put 'on hold'. the RK will Confirm their correct 'address for service'
3) complain to the landowner if we can find out who they are but the car park is extremely small and so far we are drawing a blank on this one. - the local businesses next to the car park are going to be approached to see if we can obtain the details of the LO.

Summary of events

1) Car was being used for purpose of delivering food to a resident living in a block of flats connected with the car park with CPM signs on eve of 17/12/18.
2) RK was given a PCN with £100 charge dated 18/01/19
3) 19/01/19 an online appeal was issued directly to CPM on their website
The appeal stated that the car was there on legitimate business to deliver food to a resident and as such the car was not parked but had pulled up only to drop off the food not to park there for a protracted length of time . - it was also pointed out that it was impossible to contact CPM at that time of night to enquire about a permit because their office was closed.
4) 19/02/2019 letter arrives stating the Appeal was unsuccessful and CPM stated the following reasons - no valid permit displayed & they said they allowed 10 min grace period (the pics on the PCN show 11 mins between both pics!
:_ --- they stated that the signs clearly state that a Valid UK CPM permit must be clearly displayed at all times in the front windscreen and that the photo evidence showed there was no permit.
3) The appeal notification dated 19/02 did say that because CPM's internal appeals procedure had been complied with that they offered IAS providing an appeal was lodged within 21 days which the RK never did . -
4) from Feb 19 to 07/08 4 demands for payment from TRACE legal were received and all were ignored . - Charge had now gone up to £160 on all four letters.
5) RK asked me to help after 1st demand from TRACE so I gave the advice given here which was to do nothing more and not respond to these demands which the RK accepted this advice.
6) Today - Gladstones LBC arrives

Coupon-mad

Yes to all of the above. I like the way you are helping others/family with cases!

Re this:

email Gladstones and state that the RK has sent their client a SAR and so they require a restriction of data processing and the case should be put 'on hold'. the RK will Confirm their correct 'address for service'

Yes, and also:

- tell Gs that the D is seeking debt advice (that secures the 30 day hold)

- tell Gs that the £60 added 'indemnity or nominal costs/loss' (what loss? haha!) is a complete lie and if they serve a claim including a sum over and above the 'parking charge' - a sum that goes behind the Beavis case and which they are not entitled to recover - the D will seek full costs on the indemnity basis when they win.

- attach Jopson v Homeguard and tell them they clearly have no cause of action as this case is on all fours with Jopson, which is a persuasive appeal case that supports the D and was about brief unloading in a residential site.

This is all about being robust and slapping the case down.

It is likely to proceed to a claim but the above might get them thinking, and if not, then it shows your Judge (later on) that the D was reasonable and engaged in pre-action communications and already exposed the lack of evidence and cause of action, and so the entire claim 'could have been avoided as per the overriding objective, but wholly unreasonably, the robo-claim model ploughed ahead...thus the D wishes to seek their full costs and time at £19 per hour LiP rate, on the indemnity basis due to this conduct which has no justification...' etc. etc.

BS_Newbie

Thanks very much Coupon Mad and I love your suggestions as well and so we will .

We had an excellent result a few months ago with the Britannia PArking & Waitrose (Which I think created records in this forum for the amount of posts!) and so much help was given by so many on here - yourself included that I have tried to help anyone since then who has had problems with these delightful specimens of humanity. - my way of paying it forward.

I do have one Question - when you say "attach Jopson v Homeguard" etc do you mean attach the whole of that case or just simply refer to it ?

Also they state in their letter "if you believe you have a valid reason for non payment , you are able to reply pursuant to Para 4 of the PAP for debt claims" etc etc etc . - does the communication with G's have to be laid out on the official forms or is an email sufficient ?


MAny thanks again for such a detailed and swift response

Coupon-mad

I mean the whole transcript. But the D can email Gs and just attach it as an enclosure.

We had an excellent result a few months ago with the Britannia PArking & Waitrose (Which I think created records in this forum for the amount of posts!)

Ah, that's right, that was you! I loved your Waitrose attack, they need to hear it more from angry, sued customers!

They have got into bed with the wrong PPC and they will regret that contract. Britannia, with their ''sue 'em all, using BW Legal and add a fake £60 and £50 on top'' mentality, are about as far removed from the gentile and well-known customer service ethos of Waitys as you could find, as you know!

BS_Newbie

Yes that was me and that was on behalf of another family member as well -

I think my question got missed there as I added it after I posted - I did ask this - Also they state in their letter "if you believe you have a valid reason for non payment , you are able to reply pursuant to Para 4 of the PAP for debt claims" etc etc etc . -

does the communication with G's have to be laid out on the official forms or is an email sufficient ?

Coupon-mad

We never tell people to use the forms, as it stops a numpty filling in financial data!

BS_Newbie

Excellent - thank you again - It's too late now but I will start to prepare an email tomorrow for G's and before I send it , I will post it here to make sure nothing is missed.

The SAR is easy - I shall use the one we sent to Britannia on the Waitrose win!!

BS_Newbie

Coupon-mad wrote: »

We never tell people to use the forms, as it stops a numpty filling in financial data!

SAR Gone off and I have downloaded the PAP details from https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/pdf/protocols/debt-pap.pdf

Perhaps a stupid question and apologies in advance if it is but if you never tell people to use the forms is it sufficient to put the details into the email that is asked for in the form in Annexe 1 in order to comply with Para 4 of the PAP? - - i.e - I dispute the debt and am going to be seeking legal and debt advice from CAB & a local money advice service (or words to that effect)?

Also Annexe 2 is a common financial statement and the RK will certainly not be completing one of those ( I used to be a debt counsellor with a local Money Advice Service and am intimately familiar with CFS's! )

beamerguy

The PAP that involves the letter before claim and in theory should open a door for discussion.
I reality with the parking scammers and their very dodgy legals, they comply with a letter before action but when you respond, they mostly ignore you and the next thing is a court claim

All the PAP has done is delay the matter for 30 days.

Unless a judge tells you, you don't owe any money. Unlike a bank loan where you know you do owe the money, you never complete financial forms to scammers as you never know if your info gets passed to others.

Your issue is with Gladstones who set up the great IPC scam and as they have proved themselves as scammers, they cannot be trusted with personal data...

Don't forget that part of the Gladstones scam is to add fake amounts in claims ...... any normal person would never give personal data to a rogue company

The_Deep

Read this

https://parking-prankster.blogspot.com/2016/11/residential-parking.html

residents have right. and these tickets usually infringe them,

[FONT=Times New Roman, serif]Parliament is well aware of the MO of these private parking companies, many of whom are former clampers, and on 15th March 2019 a Bill was enacted to curb the excesses of these shysters. Codes of Practice are being drawn up, an independent appeals service will be set up, and access to the DVLA's date base more rigorously policed, persistent offenders denied access to the DVLA database and unable to operate.

Hopefully life will become impossible for the worst of these scammers, but until this is done you should still complain to your MP, citing the new legislation.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2019/8/contents/enacted

Just as the clampers were finally closed down, so hopefully will many of these Private Parking Companies[/FONT]

Coupon-mad

is it sufficient to put the details into the email that is asked for in the form in Annexe 1 in order to comply with Para 4 of the PAP? - - i.e - I dispute the debt and am going to be seeking legal and debt advice from CAB & a local money advice service (or words to that effect)?

yes indeed.