Flat - Share of Freehold & want to make immediate alterations

nkarma

Hi all, FTB here.

After about 4 months of looking, we got an offer accepted on our 'dream' flat a month ago (I know we aren't supposed to use that terminology). It's full speed ahead for mortgage application, private survey this week, and solicitor currently undertaking searches.

The flat is ground floor with garden within a period conversion with us, and two other tenants who own share of freehold (e.g. Freeholder).

The flat currently is a one-bedroom and upon completion, we would like to immediately (or asap) make alterations to the flat including removal of a (likely) non-load bearing wall, installation of new partition wall to create a new bathroom, partial wall to create a second bedroom, and a full kitchen remodel. The Lease includes a clause that the Freeholder must grant a License to make any alteration to the demised premises. It appears that similar to other leases that if your lease does not completely ban all alterations, you will need permission, but the Freeholder is not allowed to refuse permission unreasonably if the alteration would improve the property.

Any further thoughts or experiences with this? Wondering if we are mad to do this as essentially rolling the dice that the other freeholders are reasonable and would give permission if we submit drawings by a Structural Engineer and installation is in accordance with Building Regs. I have googled their names and haven't come up with much on them as people - currently both their properties are being let.

I'd be very disappointed if we have to keep the layout as is. The flat is on a road with c.10 other ground flats with the same external layout, but every single internal layout being slightly different. Some include the wall we want to remove and others don't. Structurally, I'm pretty certain we can make the changes it's just getting the Freeholder's permission.

Is there anything we can prior to Exchange to ensure we are more likely to get permission, like send either hand-drawn proposed plans subject to review by Structural Engineer or the full plans for the works . I think having a Structural Engineer visit the property and make plans could delay the exchange and p*ss off the seller.

Thanks in advance for any advise

need_an_answer

I'm inclined to say that its not your dream flat until the alterations are complete and there is enough uncertainty to prevent them happening.

without the consent would you still buy the property?

If the answer is no then I think you should look for that real dream property where it has the layout you want

G_M

nkarma wrote: »

Hi all, FTB here.

After about 4 months of looking, we got an offer accepted on our 'dream' flat a month ago (I know we aren't supposed to use that terminology). It's full speed ahead for mortgage application, private survey this week, and solicitor currently undertaking searches.

The flat is ground floor with garden within a period conversion with us, and two other tenants who own share of freehold (e.g. Leaseholder).

The flat currently is a one-bedroom and upon completion, we would like to immediately (or asap) make alterations to the flat including removal of a (likely) non-load bearing wall, installation of new partition wall to create a new bathroom, partial wall to create a second bedroom, and a full kitchen remodel. The Lease includes a clause that the[STRIKE] Leaseholder[/STRIKE]freeholder? must grant a License to make any alteration to the demised premises. It appears that similar to other leases that if your lease does not completely ban all alterations, you will need permission, but the [STRIKE]Leaseholder[/STRIKE]freeholder? is not allowed to refuse permission unreasonably if the alteration would improve the property.
Is that what the lease says? Please quote.


Any further thoughts or experiences with this? Wondering if we are mad to do this as essentially rolling the dice that the other freeholders (Leaseholder) are reasonable and would give permission if we submit drawings by a Structural Engineer and installation is in accordance with Building Regs. I have googled their names and haven't come up with much on them as people - currently both their properties are being let.
so absent freeholders. Who knows? They might want paying to compeng their tenants disturbed and complaining.


I'd be very disappointed if we have to keep the layout as is. The flat is on a road with c.10 other ground flats with the same external layout, but every single internal layout being slightly different. Some include the wall we want to remove and others don't. Structurally, I'm pretty certain we can make the changes it's just getting the [STRIKE]Leaseholder's[/STRIKE]freeholder's permission.

Is there anything we can prior to Exchange to ensure we are more likely to get permission, like send either hand-drawn proposed plans subject to review by Structural Engineer or the full plans for the works . I think having a Structural Engineer visit the property and make plans could delay the exchange and p*ss off the seller.

Thanks in advance for any advise

If you can contact the other freeholders there's no harm in asking, but do you know who/where they are?

eddddy

You can ask the seller what the process is for getting consent, and what fees the joint freeholders would charge you.

How are decisions about the building reached by the freeholders? Does it have to be unanimous or a 2:1 majority? Are the freeholders active and cooperative?

Whilst you're correct that the law says consent mustn't be unreasonably withheld - if you have to resort to legal action to get your signed piece of paper (which you will need to eventually sell the flat), it will be time consuming and expensive.


If you want to be 100% certain, you could say that you want written consent from the freeholders before exchanging contracts. That would put the onus on the seller to do all the hassling etc. And it's likely to cause delays.

And the seller might refuse.

nkarma

Correct - please substitute Freeholder for Leaseholder in my OP.

The Freeholders issued a deed of surrender and title re-grant within 12 days of offer acceptance so at least they aren't absentee.

macman

You are not remotely near exchanging yet. Why spend money on plans or a structural engineer when there is no certainty that you or the vendor may go through with the sale?

nkarma

I'd draw the plans. I'm not a structural engineer though. My proposal was to send the Freeholder plans prior to Exchange but I'm sure the first question would be to assess whether the internal wall is load bearing, as the plans are essentially useless if it does not include how the structure would be affected by the alterations.

NeilCr

nkarma wrote: »

I'd draw the plans. I'm not a structural engineer though. My proposal was to send the Freeholder plans prior to Exchange but I'm sure the first question would be to assess whether the internal wall is load bearing, as the plans are essentially useless if it does not include how the structure would be affected by the alterations.

Taking account of edddy's post about seller possibly refusing and the likely delays I would say give them as much detail as you can in the simplest possible form

I have something a bit similar going on at the moment. We have a prospective resident who is seeking our permission for some alterations. I can fully understand that they want it clear before they proceed with the purchase but all we have at the moment is "I want permission to do x and y". We have gone back for much more information

It is worth remembering that people like your other freeholders and us (ManCo owned by residents) are unpaid and may well not have a lot of time to go through lots of complicated paperwork. We have an MA to advise but it is still time consuming. Especially, given that the prospective purchaser can pull out at any time.

eddddy

NeilCr wrote: »

It is worth remembering that people like your other freeholders and us (ManCo owned by residents) are unpaid and may well not have a lot of time to go through lots of complicated paperwork. We have an MA to advise but it is still time consuming. Especially, given that the prospective purchaser can pull out at any time.

To be honest, it could be even worse dealing with corporate freeholder or management company.

They might say that they need...

• Your structural engineer's report and calculations
• Your surveyor's / architect's report confirming how building regs will be met (fire safety, noise insulation etc)

And then the freeholder will instruct their own structural engineer, surveyor, architect to check your application.

And the freeholder will want you to pay the fees for their professional advisors in advance.

And paying for the freeholder's surveyor to inspect the work as it's being done, to make sure it's being done according to the plans.

And if the lease plan shows the internal walls in your flat, the freeholder might insist on a lease variation to show the new internal walls.


But hopefully, you'll find that your joint freeholders are a little more pragmatic.

Tom99

How long is the lease? Remember just because you own a share of the freehold it does not automatically give you a longer lease.
Also check on the lease plan that the garden is included in your exclusive demise and that the garden shown on the plan lines up with what's on the ground.

cybervic

I went through the similar thing last year, I wanted a wall removed but didn't know if that's possible in a flat I was buying.

I got a "consent in principle" from freeholder's managing agent before exchange. It basically said it's possible to make structural alteration provided X conditions are met (and they listed the conditions and fees).